Guardrails — Week 5

Dina, Julie, and Pastor Zach finish the Guardrails series by exploring how Christians can wisely use artificial intelligence without letting it replace trust in God or meaningful relationships. They discuss the opportunities AI provides, the risks it presents, and the practical guardrails that help keep Jesus—not technology—at the center of our lives.

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Transcript

Jokes And Warm Welcome

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our sermon series and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dina Newsom, and I'm so happy to be here with you today. I have some some stupendous guests today. Stupendous is the adjective of the day. Stupe was the syllable you started with.

SPEAKER_03 0:25

So thank thank you.

SPEAKER_02 0:27

Stupendous. Go ahead, say hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Julie Easley, hi. Hey, I'm Zach Zender.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Thanks for being here today. I don't know if you guys know this. I start out all this the same way, but tomorrow is International Joke Day. July 1st is International Joke Day. So my question for you is I would like to put you on the spot and ask you if you have a joke to tell. However, oh oh oh Julie's raising her hand. She's got one. Okay. Okay, are you ready? Yep.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

What's the leading cause of dry skin?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Towels.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Wow. Come on. Would you consider that a dad joke?

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Yes, because Deal's the one who told it to me. And he's a dad.

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Um so Zach, do you have a joke to share? Or I'm so bad at remembering jokes.

SPEAKER_03 1:22

I'm more of a dad joke guy than anything else. Yeah. I like the dad jokes and all the stupid, silly ones like that. The stupendous ones.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

Yeah, the stupendous ones. Okay, I have a Jesus joke for you. All right.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

What is Jesus' favorite set of dishes?

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Chinese. China. I don't know. Fine China.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

Parables. Parables. I heard it on the radio. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

Good for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

There was a joke contest on one of the radio stations, and some girl, I think, made it up. I think her and her dad made it up. Oh, good for her.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

I thought it was funny. It took me a minute to get it.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Yeah, me too. That's great. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

So, you know, on the day this drops, it's international joke.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

So international joke, does that mean that you have to tell an international joke, or is it just it's it's an international joke?

SPEAKER_02 2:20

It's just recognized on an international scale.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

So like France would be in on this tomorrow.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

Wow. Okay. That's a good idea.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Maybe Japan. I'm just it's all over. You know, it's so funny to me when I look up these, what's international and what's national. And I'm just wondering like, is it just one extra hoop you have to jump through? There's an extra form you fill out to be an international day recognized. Yeah. I don't know what the process is.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

Please don't tell an international joke or we're gonna get canceled somehow. I just know it.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

I got a great one about Russia.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Right? Wait, let me ask AI really quick.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Didn't segue.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yeah. All right. So

Guardrails Series Meets AI

SPEAKER_02 3:02

we are in our guardrails series, and this week was week five, and Pastor Seth Flick was tea uh uh preaching this week, and he was talking about AI, artificial intelligence. So, what are you taking beyond Sunday from this week's message?

SPEAKER_00 3:18

I really liked his um just kind of comparing um the golden calf and kind of the golden screen in our lives and and about that guy, Bezwell, who who created something right made out of gold that actually helped to honor the Lord instead of replace the Lord. So I just thought that was really great, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 3:40

Yeah, uh super practical message. So I'm really happy that people got to hear it and that I got to hear it. I think probably the thing that was convicting for me, because I'm in this world where I I enjoy using AI because of how efficient it can make me in certain areas that are uh areas that I would say I'm not as gifted in. And so if it can help me in some of those and be more efficient, that's great. The question he had that was convicting and challenging, and I'm taking beyond Sunday, is if you know you're using all these tools for saving time and efficiency, uh, what are you using those extra hours for? Is it is it for just more free time or is it to work on your relationship with Jesus? How basically how are you using cool? So if it saves you hours, cool, but what are you using those hours for? That was really convicting for me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:32

That was a good one. Um, I really liked how he talked about this is a hard issue, not a tech issue. I think it's very easy to blame the tech um in a lot of things, but uh AI being one of them, uh, that this is oh, this is a tech issue. We need to do something about the technology. It's not, it's a people issue.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, it's a hard issue.

SPEAKER_02 4:50

And I just liked bringing that back to it, really is it's it's we control the tech, the tech does not control us. And so, you know, how are we attacking that?

SPEAKER_04 4:59

It's good.

How We Actually Use AI

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Okay, so my startup question for you is how do you currently use AI in your daily life? Or how do your kids use it?

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Yeah, I use it pretty regularly, probably several times a day. Uh, I think for me, I I use it in different different capacities. Uh, sometimes, you know, it's as simple as uh, and my wife would be in this camp too of like, hey, we've got these ingredients in the kitchen, we're not sure what to make. Give me a recipe. Or, hey, we're traveling to this particular city for my son's golf tournament. What can we do in the city? Uh, plan an itinerary for a two, three-day, whatever. So it's it's helpful in that those things. I think from the work perspective as a preacher, I tend to use it uh primarily after I've I've done what I feel like is uh the good hard work and use it more as a tool that helps me uh shape it's almost it, well, it's not almost, it's instant feedback. And so I like going back and forth with with usually chat GPT for probably more than an hour after I feel like I've already got it, my sermon to a pretty good place. And I'll do the same prompts that I uh do every time now is essentially I I rate, I have it rate my sermon on a one to five scale uh using the Goodreads scale. I always put that one in just so it it's the same baseline and it'll rate it. And of course, Chat GPT is always super nice.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

And so sometimes I gotta tell it, hey, it's not that good yet.

SPEAKER_02 6:28

Um does it ever come back and say, this really stinks, Zach. You know, this needs a lot of help.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

If it's negative, it'll be like, well, in comparison to these five, it's not, you know. So but I appreciate it. And I usually try to get that ranking up. Uh, and so we'll do several iterations with it. It might be, hey, you can tighten this illustration here. This didn't land, this could use something here. And I think that's valuable feedback. For me, that's not the only feedback I get. So typically I'll do that before I bring my messages to the teaching team and get other humans to talk about it too, because they'll see things that AI doesn't see. And so I tend to use it in that capacity. I also have a couple other prompts that I put in. I especially want to know like how will people feel as I'm preaching it. And it does a really good job. And and there's uh certain times where I'll ask it, what are two or three important body language or tone or just something visual, uh perhaps that might help this sermon to land. And don't take all the feedback, but every now and then there's something that's really good. And I'm like, I'm really helpful that I did that. Yeah. Um, and I I just remember one sermon in particular, it was really heavy on the law, and and some sometimes sermons need to be that way before you kind of give them the beautiful good news of Jesus. And but it it really like said, this is a lot. And so if you're gonna do this, uh, you know, you should probably say something like, This is gonna feel heavy and it's gonna feel like a lot, and just kind of warn them up front so that they know. And I think looking back, actually had feedback, a couple people said that was really good that you said that. You know what I mean? So yeah, I I tend to use it as uh something that hopefully it can respond to and and make what I've already done that much better. Uh, and so anyway, those are some of the uses that I use it for.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

You don't use it to write your sermon on the spot, like you know, Seth.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

No, I've done it once or twice just to see what it spits out, and it's it's crazy how good it is, like how decent it is. Uh, but uh there's a certain tone that AI has, and pretty soon everything's gonna sound the same. And so I really try hard to not do that and to use it more as a tool to help afterwards, primarily. If I'm stuck or like there's you know, I I just have been then sure I I can ask, you know, hey, I'm stuck here. Uh give me a few ideas, and that that's great. Yeah, I don't mind doing that here and there, but it's it shouldn't it shouldn't take away the hard, deep work that humans need to do to get to a message that humans need to hear.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

That's good. Uh, we have an Alexa at home and she tells me the weather a lot because I ask her for the weather a lot. Um, she also turns out all of the lights for me. So I feel kind of like a big deal when I'm like, Alexa, shut off the living room, and boom, everything just turns off. So that's kind of nice. Um, I'm thankful for um AI navigation helps. I cannot find my way out of a paper bag. I like literally, I don't know how I would have gotten anywhere 50 years ago. Maybe I would have had to develop the skills, but I don't have to. So I'm I'm super grateful for that. Um, Grammarly tells me that I really miss uh using commas a lot. So I have to work on that. But she likes um typically she likes the tone I use when I'm sending out emails, so that's good to know. Uh work projects. So um so I'm just gonna use this for an example. So right now I'm um kind of the directing overseeing next gen for um King of Kings, and I needed to write like eight volunteer job descriptions. And if it was just me doing it, it probably would have taken me like hours and hours. And I just asked her to write them and they were amazing. And I knocked like eight of them out in an hour. But here's the thing. Okay, so there's two things. Alexa the other day asked me, Who's this talking to me? I was like completely wigged out. I just went totally silent.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

I'm like, I don't want to tell you. Bob, it's Bob.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

And then after she got after she created all those job descriptions for me, I was so grateful. I actually typed thanks into the to the prompting. And she was like, I had a blast working on this with you. And I was like, thanks. And I thought, oh, I don't know. This is why is this great and weird at the same time? I don't know. You I don't even know why I felt compelled to thank it, but I was grateful. It's tricky, it's slippery.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Okay, you want to Dina. You want to know something really funny about thanking uh machines? So the McDonald's near our house um has an AI that takes your order. And I always say thank you after it gives you the total. Mostly out of habit, it started. And then my kids or whoever was with me would always comment you don't have to thank the machine. And I would always turn to them and say, Have you not seen some of the sci-fi movies? When the machines take over the world, they're gonna recognize my voice and I will be saved and you will be dying dead. No, I like I rely heavily on navigation. I could like I I used to be good at finding my way in places. And then since I've had navigation GPS, now I don't even look at what's around me. Like I will follow that navigation even to a place I've been 20 places, 20 times. I will follow that navigation until I'm like right at the location and I'll look up and be like, this is nowhere near where I'm supposed to be. Like I trust it wholeheartedly to take me to the wrong place.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

So machines, she's thankful and she trusts you.

SPEAKER_02 12:10

Yep, yep. Yeah. But I don't, I don't use it a lot in my work. I like to write. Like I enjoy that's something I do for creativity. And, you know, that's uh so I don't use it a lot. I just, and plus I'm a really fast typer. And so that helps that maybe it doesn't save me as much time as it might someone else. So I don't use it as much like to craft emails or to craft presentations as some people might. I can see where it would be valuable and I and I do run if I'm doing like a presentation, I will run it through Chat GPT to give me feedback afterwards, but I don't use it to create a lot. And probably I would save myself some time that way, but I I just I don't use it in that way right now. Yeah. My kids use it for school. My kids all use it for school things, school related things. Or um, my son, I give him a hard time. He's taking college classes right now, and I tease him about not using AI too much. Every time he talks about he has a paper or anything, I'm like, you're not totally AI and it. He's like, No, mom, I'm starting it myself.

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Yeah, and the professor still has to, I mean, he's got that down now.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:23

You better not try because he knows how to catch you.

SPEAKER_02 13:26

Yeah, well, the and they have tools to catch them now. Yeah. But here's the here's the flaw. So my oldest daughter just got her master's degree. And when she was submitting a bunch of her papers, um, the online program she was with switched their AI catcher like three months before graduation. And so she had been submitting her papers and they were fine or whatever. And then all of a sudden, they were tripping the AI alert. And like she, she's like me, she is almost anal about writing her own things. So I know she was doing the work. She would run it through afterwards. So she reached out to her professor that, you know, was saying, hey, you have to redo this. And she was like, I don't, I don't know what to do here. This is my my natural writing, you know. And the professor is like, well, it must be some symptom of the new checker we have that is looking for different things. And she's like, Okay, so do I need to redo it? And they're like, and she was like, Yeah, why don't you redo it a little bit and submit it again? Still tripped the checker that says it's AI. So my daughter dug in her heels and like went to battle with this professor. And she started getting a bunch of her old papers and submitting them through this checker, and it tripped up then, but they had been accepted six months before. So finally her professor gave her a pass. But I was like, oh, the I mean, I was like, this is maybe a double-edged sword that it is catching some things, but this was a case where it was catching something that was authentically written and not, you know, tripping the yeah, I don't know. It's complicated. It is very complicated. It just and I think the layers just get deeper the more we the more involved it becomes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

Which is why we need a sermon on it. I mean, at the end of the day, that's right. It's a it can be a gift, but it can be uh there's lots of things to be careful about. So really practical.

Church Hopes And Real Fears

SPEAKER_02 15:08

All right. So what aspects of AI integration most concern you as a church worker, and what aspects most excite you regarding the future of the church?

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Well, I would find it really disturbing just to listen to a message that was entirely created by AI. Right? Because there's no Holy Spirit at work there, and there's no personal spirit either. So that just feels really off and bad. Um, one way that we use AI here is that um we create targeted messaging for our congregation. So we're just bombarded with messages all the time, right? Ads and um messages that tell us what to do. And so the more we can filter things out and make things more personal. So for example, if you've been baptized, hopefully our AI will, when you receive a message from us, we won't be talking to you about baptism again because it's happened. But if you haven't been baptized, and we have a baptism Sunday coming up, you'll receive a message about that. And so it's just really targeted for a person. I think that that's really useful and can help in um helping people in their discipleship journey to Jesus. Um, I think about just the time that that's saved. Uh so creating those job descriptions took me, again, for for our volunteers, took me two hours as opposed to eight. Um that's time I can use to do something else. So I'm I'm pleased about that. Um, training content for volunteers. That's another time that I've used AI. So I can see good and and scary applications for it.

SPEAKER_03 16:52

Yeah, same. And I think that we should recognize either side of that. And so, what aspects concern me as a church worker, I would say probably just the overarching ease of which AI exists in our world. Uh, I think that sometimes that God works a lot through the struggle and through the not knowing and through the tension. And if we just completely are able to shortcut that process, I'm concerned that that's gonna have you know some ripple effects in other areas of our life where if everything's always easy, uh, then there's something off about that. We're not this world's not supposed to be easy. So that that really concerns me. It concerns me as well that in the AI space in general, it it is a tool, it you could say is amoral, but most of the people working on AI are operating from not a Christian worldview. And so I think that this got put out into the world before the world was ready without as much regulation as it ought to have had. And without Christian leaders like speaking into this and being at the ground floor, I'm concerned about where it's gonna go for sure. And so that's where, again, like part of my plea and Seth's plea in this guardrail series, like we have these things like politics and social media and artificial intelligence. And so it's tough because we each have to have an answer for it for ourselves. But as a whole, as a collective, if Christians just get out of these things, that's not good for the world. It's not good for politics, that's not good for social media, that's not good for artificial intelligence. If it's like, no, these things are from the devil, we're not gonna be a part of it. It's like, no, we we actually, some of us need to be. That's the the wrestle. So that's concerning. It's what excites me, I, you know, I think on a grand scale, he he shared the news of Lutheran Bible translators in this coalition of Bible translating companies and nonprofits that because of artificial intelligence, they're able to speed up Bible translation so that every tribe, nation, language has at least part of the scripture by 2033. I mean, that just got fast-forwarded to a ridiculous level. And so that that's that's exciting for me. And it also is exciting, like, you know, I mentioned the struggle earlier. This is the tension, uh, but it also is really uh nice for instant feedback. And so I think it is helpful at times when you need that instant feedback and you're in a group and you're in that creating process to have somebody, and I know AI is not a somebody, but it acts as one that can give um unbiased, maybe it's more positive than you want it to be sometimes, but uh uh opinions that can be helpful. So I think like at the end of the day, the the what whatever you're working on, uh it it it could be higher quality than it ever has been in the past. And and God is deserving of excellence. And so if a tool can help me get to a place, if I don't misuse it, I don't abuse it, but if that tool can get me to a place where I can have something more excellent to showcase God in his glory, cool. I think that's a positive with a whole lot of like concerns uh about about how to get to that place. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Um, I ha share all the excitement about the ways that it can um help the work that we do and how um the feedback that it gives, that kind of thing. I guess one of my biggest concerns just is false doctrine because I think it's very easy to look up something online, which could be whatever, you know what I mean? And oh, well, look, it's in print on this screen, so it must be true. And so I worry about that and how that is used, or how inexperienced people or people who are not active in the church that are looking to take steps into reading scripture, are they getting the correct scripture? Right. You know what I mean? Are they getting the real word of God?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

Um, and I also my other fear is about the replacement of community that AI can provide. That now people do therapy with their AI, or um, you know, that's their closest relationship, that's who they ask opinions of, or you know, who they shop with, or things like that. And what does it replace about community?

SPEAKER_04 21:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

Um, those are some of the fears that I have the more prevalence use because that those community is one of the foundations of our faith together. You know what I mean? That we grow when we are in community with each other. Um, and so I think that's a valuable piece that we want to keep in.

SPEAKER_03 21:37

Yeah, and that's gonna be one that we'll have to watch too. I do think that that is somewhat of a generational thing um, that younger generations are using it more and more for companionship. And it's like, again, part of that like, no, we're relationships ought to have some conflict and some struggle, friction, some friction. And AI just doesn't give you that. It gives you exactly what you want. And so if it does, and that's where you Tend to go. It's gonna end results collectively are gonna be we're gonna be in relationships. And once something hard comes, we're gonna exit out of those. We're gonna struggle to forgive, we're gonna hold bitter bitterness. Like those are the long-term effects of trading real companionship for uh for a a a tool. Yeah. Um, and so that that is a hundred percent concerning.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

Um, if you are newer to the podcast or to King of Kings, we did a sermon series at the start of this year called Not Alone. Um, I can't remember now if it was January or February, but if you look back, um, that is some good uh some good material about community and relationships if you haven't seen it yet. All

Spotting Your Golden Screen

SPEAKER_02 22:41

right. How can we discern when AI is becoming a golden screen in our own lives, similar to the golden calf that Seth shared about from the Bible? What guardrails do we need?

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Okay, so I'm just gonna use a real practical example. So I um I gave up, I gave up Facebook and YouTube for Lent. And man, that was really healthy for me. Um, but I've gotten back on YouTube and the algorithm now knows what I like. And what I like to look at are cooking videos. I like to watch tornadoes ripping ripping through towns, and I like to watch people on those slingshot rides where they get shot up into the air and scream a bunch. And and this is just a whole other time of you, Julie. I know. I don't know what it says. But um so I just the other day I remember watching like a bunch of slingshots, those people getting shot into the air. I got to the end of the day. I'm like, oh, I didn't have my I didn't have my time with the Lord. Okay, what's wrong with this picture? Like I had all this time and just watched nothingness, right? Or watch a tornado ripping roofs off the place. And I'm just like, okay, Julie, it this little pocket thing is really like I'll just sit down, oh I have five minutes. What can this hurt? It really starts to chew up a bunch of time over. Like, if I were, if God were to say, give me an account of your day, I would be embarrassed about that part of it.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

It'd be like I had 16 cat videos, two soldiers surprising their kids coming home, and four pimple popping videos. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

That I can't do. Anyway, it just triggered something in my mind of like, oh, this is cross-line. Yeah. That's okay. That's all right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

I got golf videos. That doesn't go to the level of pimple popping and slingshot and watching tornadoes rip through. You are twisted. I know, I know. See that twister, see what I did there.

SPEAKER_02 24:48

Is that a dad joke?

SPEAKER_03 24:49

Yeah, it's kind of kind of. Yeah. So I think probably the number, you know, there's probably lots of different ways you can discern it, but but I think one of the ways is, yeah, similar to what Julie was referencing for just a second there before she got into her crazy algorithm, is can you can if it got taken away, are you going to be okay without it? And so regularly putting periods of time in where you're placing these tools aside and and putting them in their proper place. I think that's probably one of the best things you can do to like physically know. But I think also that, you know, you asked the question of discernment. I think that's an inside thing. Like someone probably knows if it's, especially if they're a follower of Christ, they probably know like if this has gone too far or not. They probably know uh if if they looked at their screen time and if they haven't been in relationship with Jesus, like they can probably see that pretty, pretty plainly. But I would say, yeah, a great test would be how how can you spend a day without it this upcoming week? Uh, can you yeah, get off of that tool or that device for uh a week of a month, maybe? I I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 25:59

So whatever that looks like for people, I know sometimes it's not that's not always practical with jobs and things like that that sometimes depend on these new things, but I used to, I can remember, I don't know, 10 years ago maybe, um, people that would fast from social media during Lent. Um, and I didn't really understand it. I was like, I knew a lot of people that fasted from sugar or fasted, you know, and they were trying to launch a diet. And so this was their way of really holding themselves accountable and hopefully making a life change. And I didn't really understand, well, if you're why fast from social media if you're just gonna intend to get on it again after these 40 days. And it's the perspective that it gives without it. And I understand that now, but I can remember honestly thinking, well, what's the point of that? Like if what are you if you're just you know, it's not something you're giving up or trying to change about your life, but it is the perspective that it gives of how much time that you may get back or that you may be spending on it. Litmus test. Yeah, taking it away, I think is the simplest answer of if you can check if it's in perspective. Yeah.

Using AI To Serve The Gospel

SPEAKER_02 27:04

What are some practical ways that we can use AI to help spread the gospel while ensuring that it doesn't replace our reliance on God?

SPEAKER_03 27:14

Yeah, I think as an assist, right? Not the it's not the primary. You still are the primary. And AI cannot save somebody. That was really clear in what Seth said in his message. Like if you type into AI, hey, I made this mistake. Can't can you forgive me of my sins? No, it can't. So again, these are uh with assist, practical ways AI, uh, it's a it's a really great research tool. It's a really great study tool. Um, it's a really great, you know, if you want to read commentaries on certain things. Sometimes I get emails uh from people in church or in, you know, that are connected to me and they'll say, hey, and the email would be like, Hey, what's the verse that says this, this, and this? And I'm and so what do I do? I will put it into AI. Here you go. Did you know? And did you know with the same amount of time, even less, because you had to wait for my response, which sometimes isn't great. Um, you could have typed that into Google or Chat GPT and figured out that answer. But um, so it it it's just a really great study use as an assistant uh that I think let's use that. Why why wouldn't we use that? And so that that would be one thing I would say so.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

And he said, if someone told you you could talk to a thousand people, a room of a thousand people about Jesus, like just you and a thousand people in a room, wouldn't you be like, wow, that's pretty amazing. Um, but so often we poo-poo the idea of of sharing our faith online or just haven't even really thought about it that much. And we I think we do have an opportunity. I don't know if everybody's called to like get online and do that, but I mean, I think about my social media platforms and how I'm using those. And am I pointing people to Jesus? And what's my what's my uh tone when I'm getting on those social media platforms? And is that um is it kind of I know we overuse this word, but is it is it a winsome presence? Is is it an attractive presence that people are like, oh, I want to hear more from this person about Christ. Um, so just being aware of like you do have opportunities to talk to a lot of people on social media or yeah, on any of those kind of platforms.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

So one really practical way in my life that I get to use AI to help share the gospel is the questions for this podcast. So yeah, um when we first when I first started hosting the podcast, I would come up with the questions on my own and it would take me a decent amount of time. Um, Zach's sermons are always easier to come up with questions because Zach often has points. And so then I could ask about the different points. Um Greg's and Seth are a little bit different. Sometimes there's points and sometimes it's different. Um, but then probably I don't maybe last fall, around Christmas time, um, our creative team shared that we could use AI. It digests the sermon and spits out questions. Some of the questions are a little off base. AI doesn't fully understand what's being talked about, so I don't use those. But um that saves me time in my week. And sometimes it asks questions that I didn't I wouldn't have thought of, or they're a different insight or a different tone than what I would have voiced it as. And so that's one way I, you know, to our 14 listeners, um, maybe 15, who knows, um, I we're sharing the message with a little less effort thanks to AI. I also um I have a couple friends who do reading plans. They have a I AI create a reading plan that they want to read through um, you know, the book of Psalms. And so I want to do this in 30 days, create a reading plan for me. Or that's good. I want to read through stories that have to do with whatever from the Bible and you know, give it a topic, give me a reading plan, and so it'll be a variety of things, just like planning your vacation. That's just making a plan for scripture. And I think that's I don't I am not in the habit of doing that, but I have a couple friends who that's pretty religious for them, like pretty routine. And so I I that's a an interesting way to use it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:30

Yeah. And I think, you know, we've talked about using it sometimes for those things or things that like just ah, maybe we're not so strong on. And I I would really, yeah, that's that's kind of one of the things that I think I'm I'm landing on with AI, is each of us have different strengths. And so I would say don't pawn off your strength to AI. I think that's what God put you here for. And the moment you start giving your strength away to AI, you become less you and more of just what everyone else out in the world is doing. But when it's a weakness, and again, I'm not saying you pawn this off all the time, but there's certain times where it's strategic and efficient to like, yeah, I'm I I'm I need to get something out here. Uh, I was posting something on socials the other day for Hodos, and I needed a graphic. And I'm like, I don't, there's nobody on the team. Uh that there's all volunteers. So uh Chat GBD helped me make a really nice graphic. And I was like, thank you, Chad. I didn't say thank you. I should have. They're gonna come for me when they get me. But but it was like, yeah, that's that saved me a lot of time. I'm not gonna get into graphic design. I have no desire for it, you know. So it's like, but I but I'm not gonna give AI my strength, if that makes sense. And one of the things that was fascinating is we were planning for HODOS, this young adult gathering for 2027, is one of the things that you know the young adults came back with that they said they wanted it to feel like. I rem one of the things I wrote down, I only wrote down a few things, but one of them was no AI. So we have 18 to 29-year-olds that are saying we don't want AI to be a part of this conference, this gathering. Now, what I mean, uh what I think they mean by that is I don't I don't think they mean like we can't have a session on artificial intelligence, talk about it. But I think what they mean is I don't want anything fake. I want something real, I want something genuine, I don't want something hollow, I don't want something that's been pawned off. I want real, authentic vulnerability, depth, connection, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

I think that's good. Um talking about it's you're you don't want to be a graphic designer. Um Pastor Seth uses AI like he did at the start of the message to make photographs. He does that a lot. I get a lot of texts from him with enhanced photos just as a as a way to laugh together. Um but I did like the uh really star-spangled out version of campus directors.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Campus directors have never looked more boff than like, wow, all right.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

Yeah, I'm spending a lot of money with tattoo artists and unusual.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

All right.

Ministry Wins From AI Tools

SPEAKER_02 33:54

Can you share an instance when you've seen AI positively impact someone's spiritual journey or church ministry?

SPEAKER_00 34:05

You know, um, Instagram kind of works on an algorithm too. And actually, they're not sending me anything related to tornadoes or slingshot people. Come on, Instagram. I know, I know, but I do get a lot of like spiritual formation content, and I've been introduced to new um speakers or teachers through Instagram, new authors who've really blessed and benefited my walk with the Lord. So I'm grateful for that.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Yeah, and on a similar level, I was thinking of with UVersion. Uh, we we've created some resources in the past, Alice and I, for the UVersion Bible app. And as part of their, you know, growing company, which they're with, they're with the Bible translating group as well. That's 2033. So they're partners. But uh one of the things that they do is through their research and through all the data that they collect, is uh they will use artificial intelligence to then tell its partners like what people are looking for around the world in different parts. And so uh to me, I think that's a really cool use. Like we uh it using it in that way makes sure that we're speaking to the people's needs that we're trying to write to eventually. And so it's really nice to know, like, oh, okay, so in this season, um, people are struggling with hope. Um, this is the most popular Bible verse right now that is around the around the world or in this nation, and it's a different in this nation. So I think it's really cool that we can have a little bit more targeted uh with some probably good emotional intelligence uh around some of these things that people are are looking for, whereas in the past we might have just shot from the dark and hoped it hit. Now we're able to understand a little bit more of actually talking to um what people are really needing and searching for. And so I think that's a really cool use for for ministry.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

I agree. Um, just in the same way that God fulfills what we need, He knows just what we need. That's a way that we're making that connection to God maybe a step easier for people. That's really cool.

Identity Rooted In Jesus

SPEAKER_02 36:08

Um what steps can individuals take to ensure their identity isn't being shaped by AI, but is rooted in their relationship with Jesus?

SPEAKER_03 36:18

Yeah, I maybe jumped the gun on it a little bit. I want to come back to that. Uh just uh in your relationship with God, like he's given you gifts, power, he's given you spiritual gifts. You have the power, listener, of the Holy Spirit inside of you, and God uniquely designed you. It says that you are God's craftsman, craftsmanship. The Greek word is poema. You get the word poem from it. You're his masterpiece, and he created you in this world to do good works. And so that's the piece that I want to hone back in on. It's like, what did God uniquely create you to do, to make, to create? And so AI can be a really awesome assistant and can help make creators even more creative, or it can completely take all the creative work out of it. And that's what I want to guard against. And so my my plea would be what steps is to identify, yeah, what is how is God wired you? What are your spiritual gifts and and and try really hard? Uh it's not usually the advice we give on beyond Sunday because we're always it's it's God's grace, and it is. It's all but try really hard not to give your strength away to some something else, but to really work on that and put the hours in and become an expert in it because that's how you're uniquely weighed, made. And then by the way, when you fail at that, you try really hard and you just fail, that's where God's grace comes in.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Good. I think a lot of people are familiar with kind of this image. So think of a like a tall, skinny vase that's clear, and you need you've got like three rocks that you need to put into it and a bunch of sand. Um, and it and if you do it right, everything's gonna be able to fit in this thing, but you've got to put it in the right order. So you've got to put the three big rocks in there, and then you pour in the sand and it goes around it. So, in my example, when I got to the end of the day, one of my big rocks, my time alone with the Lord, didn't fit anymore because I just poured a whole bunch of sand in there with watching these stupid YouTube videos. So I think really prioritizing what are the things that are God's calling me to in the season? And it's always gonna be my relationship with Him. It's gonna be time with my family. Right now, I'm called to a certain job. So that's gonna fit in there too. And then if there's time for a little bit of sand after that, so be it. But let's put these things in the right order. When you get it out of it, it's easy to get it out of order when that phone is in your hand all the time.

SPEAKER_02 38:49

So I really liked Seth gave us four questions to kind of ask that to kind of answer this. And so, number one, am I hiding behind something artificial, like to ask that? Number two, am I escaping the patient pressure of formation? And I really like how he talked about that patient pressure, which is just time. That's where I think we live in a world of instant gratification anymore. And some things just cannot happen instantly. And so we have forgotten patience. And so um, I think that that is a valuable piece of the puzzle. Am I trusting this too much? Is number three. And number four is the time I have gained back by using this, if I choose to, allowing me to become more like Jesus. And um I really liked those questions. That was a good, I feel, guideline. But um, something else, Zach, that you said, talking about being uniquely made and discovering how God wired you and your spiritual gifts. Um, we uh have an event coming up, Pizza with Purpose, that we do at all three of our campuses. And the next one is July 19th. Registration is open online. If you have not been to a pizza with purpose, I encourage you to sign up and go at whichever campus you attend. Um, this is a time that it's after the later service at all of our campuses. You get free pizza. So, you know, why argue with that? Just come have some free pizza. But you get to hear more about what your purpose is and you get to discover some ways to discover how God wired you and how you can connect with that here at King of Kings and in your commute, bigger community. So I just think that's a another tool that we have for people to help discover what that is, how God wired them. That's great advice to to hone in on that.

Final Takeaways And Patient Pressure

SPEAKER_02 40:27

All right, final takeaways from this message.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

I was really grateful. Seth did a masterful job. I I think the more we can talk about things like this that are in their proper place, gifts to be stewarded well. Uh I I really love this this message and this this series, being able to be a part of it and even study deeper uh really made me question, you know, some of the choices and and decisions that I've made with some of these uh these potential gifts that can become potential pitfalls. And so I think good reminders of like, yeah, yeah, let's let's let's stay within the guardrails and and and the beautiful thing about our faith is when we go over one on either side is there is grace uh from Jesus to come back and start all over again and and and be uh and steward these tools in a better way. And so I was really super grateful for his message.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

I think I've just been um I felt encouraged to fight for the real. So my real relationship with God and my real relationship with real people, um, those are the ways that I'm I'm being changed. And then just that thought of like patient pressure. I heard once that every thought that you have grew puts a little groove in your brain. And the more you think about those things, the deeper the groove becomes. And so when I am immersing myself in the word of God, I'm creating like a biblical groove in my brain. And when I'm watching, just taking in a bunch of content, that that's not, it's just so diffuse and it's it's not necessarily worthwhile. And so I'm just thinking, you know, every day that I meet with the Lord, that patient pressure um is changing me, is changing my thoughts, changing my reactions, changing my heart. And so just saying, Lord, may I take the time for your patient pressure to change me into the image of your son.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

That's good. I like that groove idea. Um, so the quote that Seth had talking about that patient pressure pressure was cheap shortcuts forge a fraud, but the spirit uses patient pressure to shape the children of God. And that's what I wrote down as my final takeaway. I just I really resonated with that of the um slow down and let God work in this. And um AI may make a lot of things faster and quicker. And that's convenient in a lot of cases, but in my relationship with Christ, that patient pressure, or when I'm learning patience or learning wisdom, or learning to savor the joys that he brings, that patient pressure is okay to sit in. I'll let that groove form. Yeah. All right.

Next Series Preview And Closing

SPEAKER_02 43:14

So next week we start a new message series, Bible shorts. It's a little bit of live preaching at all three of our campuses. And Beyond Sunday is actually taking a little bit of a different angle. Um, rather than diving into the sermon messages, we're gonna be diving into some of the different ministries at King of Kings and a little bit behind the scenes. So um, you know, be sure to check out the messages, but then come back here next week and you'll hear a little bit of something different.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Thanks for being here today. And until then, let's keep living our faith. Beyond Sunday.