Guardrails — Week 4

Dina and Tyler continue the Guardrails series by exploring the role hobbies play in our lives. They discuss how good gifts can become unhealthy priorities, offering practical questions to help us enjoy hobbies in a way that strengthens our faith, relationships, and sense of balance.

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Transcript

Welcome And Father’s Day Stories

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our Sunday message and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dina Newsome, and I have one of my favorite guests here today. I only have one guest today, so you're extra special because you get to share the spotlight.

SPEAKER_04 0:24

Thank you so much. Guest singular today.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

Yes. No to no s. Would you want to introduce yourself? Some people may recognize you. Our regular 14 listeners will recognize you from your voice.

SPEAKER_04 0:36

This is Tyler Rolfson. I'm the campus director at King Kings Fremont, coming fresh off of a week of vacation Bible school.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 0:44

Where Miss Dina and I hung out a good amount, or I could say Miss Mina or Regina or Lena or Catalina or Argentina or Zelina.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Part of our fun at vacation Bible school in engaging the kids is that Tyler and I were on stage together and he was playing a character that couldn't get my name right. And it was quite enjoyable for the kids to correct him. So we had to come up with how many things rhymed with Dina.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

You know, and this coming week is Seth talking about AI, right? I totally AI'd that. Like, Gemini, can you give me 15 plausible first names that rhyme with Dina?

SPEAKER_03 1:29

It is a valuable tool in ministry. All right. So this week was Father's Day, and you, only one of us, sits in that role. It is not me.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

That's why I get the center chair today.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

There you go. Yep, you are. Um, so my question is do you have a favorite memory of being a father or of your father? It could be a heartfelt one, a funny one. What's a father memory that you treasure?

SPEAKER_04 2:00

Yeah, if if any of the original five Rolfsons are listening, they will know exactly what I'm sharing. But this would have been Father's Day when I would have been about nine or so. So I'm the youngest of three, sisters six years older, brothers four years older. And um, of course, youngest, you're just along for the ride. You're a tag along on everything.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

And so there was a Father's Day where um I think my sister and my mom thought it would be great if we all go golfing together.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

Golf, the family sport. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

I think what Zach was talking about with golf as a hobby this past Sunday is golfing with your golfing friends.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

And so we all went to Eagle Run here with the 132nd of Maple. And we got a tea time. Um, and then from the outset, my sister was wearing flip-flops. For those of you non-golfers, you should not be golfing in flip-flops. Um, at one point, my brother swung so hard he lost the club and it swung onto the other hole. Oh. Thankfully, I think we only did nine holes. I don't think we would have made it another nine. I certainly don't think my dad would have made it another nine. But we learned a good lesson that day that um sometimes the goal of making memories on Father's Day, it's always worth it. But maybe we need to say, Dad, what do you want to do? Because we have not done a Father's Day all golf outing as a family since since.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Sounds like it was a delight of memories, though.

SPEAKER_04 3:45

We laugh at it now.

SPEAKER_03 3:47

Yeah, that's great. All my memories of my dad are um, well, I have some heartfelt ones, but um I just my dad is now he doesn't listen, so I can say how old he is. My dad is now 80 years old. Wow. And he is still in very good health. He has had some ups and downs, but um he's still very active for his age. And just over a year ago, we went to Hawaii for my niece's wedding. And so we had lots of fun things planned while we were there. Um, and in Hawaii, there's beautiful outdoorsy things to do. And um, some of my family members are very outdoorsy and some are not. And I was not sure how into everything my dad was gonna be. But one of the things that some of my kids wanted to do was go ziplining through, you know, the beautiful areas in Hawaii. He did do it. I did not do it, I was too afraid.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

So he's like upper 70s.

SPEAKER_03 4:45

Yeah. At this point, he was he was 78, I believe, on this trip. And um, we have a photo of him like with a funny, you know, face on it with his tongue sticking out as he's ziplining. But the best part was I did not go zip lining. I babysat the grandkids that day who were too young. And the older children and grandpa went zip lining and they came home and I was asking about it. Oh, it was great. It was great, you know. And they had they had pairs of zip lines, like you ziplined kind of with a partner, two at a time. And so my son got paired with grandpa to zip line together. And at one point, they decided to do a race. They were gonna start from a point and then see who got to the next section, because you stop every so often next. And so grandpa and Christian are lined up together, ready to start. And the person who was helping my dad said, Okay, don't say anything. We're gonna go early so you can beat your grandson. And so my son is like all competitive. Like, you know, there's no way grandpa's gonna go faster. He's figuring out how he's gonna hold his feet to make him more aerodynamic and zip through things, you know. So they start counting three, two, and on two, my dad goes. And he turns around and yells to my son, let's see how this goes, and I just I loved hearing that story because we're getting to the point now where my dad, I am starting to think about when he will not be on this earth anymore. And this is just a reminder of he is still very much young at heart.

SPEAKER_04 6:25

That's amazing. He turned around to your son and called him a sucker.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Yep, yes, he did. And you can ask Christian about it. He that is his his one regret that he lost to an a very elderly man in zip, a zip lining race.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

But he's gonna say that he cheated.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

Yes. Yeah. Oh, yes, he he was the first one to bring that up.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

But I like I like reminders that we can really be young at heart, and I feel like there's a lot of memories I have of my dad that is that same type of spirit.

SPEAKER_04 6:54

So um, speaking of Father's Day, can I can I read the sweetest text that my dad sent to me and my brother, my brother-in-law?

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:02

This was like, oh my goodness, dad.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Oh anyway.

SPEAKER_04 7:06

So this is on Sunday morning at eight o'clock. He said, Happy Father's Day to three of the best dads that I know. Your leadership and love for your families is matched only by the humility in which it's done. I'm so proud of you. Double exclamation point.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Aww.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

To you, dads and grandpas out there, even to those who call your grandsons suckers, like never underestimate the power of your words to bring about life and encouragement. Because that I don't know what it was like at Millard here on Sunday, but like Sunday morning at Fremont was just, it was beautiful, it was amazing. We had all these baptisms and stuff, but it was crazy. Yes. We were running around like, and so to stop and I like had forgotten it was Father's Day, right? I had to stop and like, oh my goodness, dad, thank you. Like it's just the power of words, so single.

SPEAKER_03 7:58

That's what I was just gonna say. The power of words to build each other up is yeah, just incredible. Yeah, it was a good Father's Day. Hopefully, all of our listeners, all 14 of them, had a great Father's Day in their circles, whatever level of Father's Day that may be. Um, but we got to celebrate Father's Day with the fourth message in our guardrails series, and Pastor Zach Zender took us through that. And this week we were talking about hobbies. Um, kind of fits somewhat with Father's Day. We kind of, I think, associate Father's Day with fathers getting to go and participate in whatever hobby they may have. So, what are you taking beyond Sunday from this message?

SPEAKER_04 8:40

Yeah, he had a couple of moments where it's it's just so sometimes it's the simple repetitive things that really stick. So he had a couple of moments where he was basically asking Um, is what God has given as a gift is that turning into a God? And so like it just to be able to ask the question, is this in the place of a gift or has it turned into a God? Um and it happens just to be pairing with a number of things that we're reading in um some seminary classes right now. So I'm thinking about that kind of the hidden, the hidden temptations of idolatry. Um, and and this is one of them. And we that I word idolatry can sound so like, oh no, but man, that the very first commandment is you shall have no other gods before me. Um and so for us as Christians to to say, well, that's not just like the you know, the ancient Roman god of the sea.

SPEAKER_03 9:32

It's not a golden calf or you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:35

It's it's anything where our hearts get drawn out to trust in something other than our God. And um, and so for Zach to say, he would he did not say, he said very clearly, and listener, you should hear this, hobbies are not bad. They're gifts, but they're not gods. And so for us to make sure they stay in the place of gift, and then God still reserves his place uh on the throne of our hearts.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Yeah. Um, that's kind of in line with what I just what stood out to me was Zach talking about hobbies being gifts. I just had not put it in that frame of reference, really. Um, yes, they're things that bring pleasure, but that these are things that were specifically designed. Like God designed various forms of entertainment and all of the, you know what I mean, as gifts to us, to bless us with community, with enjoyment, with delight. Zach used the word delight. And that was what really, I was like, oh, I hadn't really put it in that frame of reference. That here is this is a gift from God wrapped up with a neat little bow. And yes, there is a temptation, you know, that you don't want it to become a God, but that it is a gift to start with. I just I hadn't put it in that frame and that stuck out to me.

SPEAKER_04 10:49

I think it tells us a lot about the character of God when we remind ourselves, like He does, He does long for us to experience deep delight and contentment and joy in this life. Now the the things of the world and sin can promise those and though they come up empty. But hobbies, I mean, especially some of the things he was talking about, like when we're outdoors, when we're with other people, when we're gardening, like just things that are like built into the created order, like yeah, God created that and he created because he delights in us. He he didn't need us, he wanted us. And and so when we partake in hobbies where again they stay in the right place, they should bring us deep joy. And it reminds us, oh yeah, we have a God who really, really loves us and likes us, like so beautiful. It honestly leads me to greater worship.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

Yes. Yeah, that's really good. Okay, so Zach touched base on this, but how do you see the view of hobbies in our modern world versus the availability of hobbies in history?

SPEAKER_04 11:58

Yeah, I I hadn't had you really thought about that before.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

No, I had not. I to me like the hobbies that I think of fishing, golfing, you know, whatever it is, stamp collecting, I don't know, had just been around forever. Like in my brain, I hadn't really thought about how they had developed.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Yeah, and and I I love history and I think knowing history really helps ground us. Um and so so this is just a perspective that's really healthy for us to recognize that we really are quite blessed. And and so, yeah, and if you have the ability to go out golfing for five hours or to to meet up with your girlfriends over coffee for three hours, four hours, six hours.

SPEAKER_03 12:43

I don't know anything about that.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

Um but to like, man, that that that is a blessing and a gift. And there and uh and it doesn't mean that the human existence before the industrial revolution was just all bad, but it was a lot more limited on the whole. And so Zach kind of made the point that um many of the hobbies that we enjoy now were relegated to um the the world of the most wealthy and the most privileged. Um, and by virtue of kind of how our world has developed, both economically and and socioeconomically, yeah, it's those blessings are more available or available to more people, um, which simultaneously means that we have the ability to enjoy more of what God has created, but then there's that much more of a temptation to be pulled away from the things that are most important. Um, and you can't really have one without the other because of kind of how things have developed.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

It also was a good check for me for how expensive

Hobbies As Gifts Not Gods

SPEAKER_03 13:45

hobbies can be. I would say I don't I don't indulge in any really expensive hobbies. I am not a collector of rare items or trying to get all of the first series of this book or this author's books or something like that. So, but it is like you said, it developed where there was a time where it was only the wealthy that had hobbies, quote unquote hobbies. And I that got me thinking that I don't have um many hobbies that are quite expensive, but a lot of people do. And it is an investment of their finances. And I mean, there's the old saying, where your money is, there your heart is also, you know, uh I I think that that can easily become the case in this situation too.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

Yeah, like any other issue of not an issue, but matter of stewardship, which we often associate financially, but it's it's more like we are simply stewards of the things that God has given us. And so, you know, the the classic three T's are your time, your talent, and your treasure. And those really serve as indicators of what's going on in your heart. And so if you're putting most of your time towards something, that probably means your heart is in it. If you're putting most of your talent towards something, that means that's where your heart is. And then, like you said, if you're putting a lot of your money into something, that's where your heart's gonna be too.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

All right. So, how can we recognize when a hobby is starting to take precedence over our relationship with God?

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Yeah. Well, Zach gave us three guardrails. I did not write them down. Do you have them right there?

SPEAKER_03 15:22

I do have them. Yep. So is your hobby becoming your identity? Is your hobby replacing worship? And is your hobby damaging relationships? Those are the three that he's out.

SPEAKER_04 15:33

I I just love this series, the way that um Zach and Seth and Greg have conceived of it. Um, because it just you just imagine, right? You're driving on that highway, and the highway might be a two-lane, it might be a seven-lane, right? Do they have seven-lane highways?

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Sure. Let's pretend they do.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

On the Beyond Sunday podcast, they exist.

SPEAKER_03 15:55

Let's say they have 17-lane highways.

SPEAKER_04 15:59

Um and and so the like there's just so there, there's space for us for for creativity and context and personality and lane to lane, but then there are guardrails where it's like these are here for our good. Like God has set them here for our good. So like going over them, which we inevitably do, and and when we do, we confess and we repent and we get back on the highway. Um, but we recognize, oh yeah, like the the problem is not the guardrails, the problem is me. Um, so in this case, how do we recognize when a hobby um has has it kind of um taken over compared to our relationship with God? It would just be asking those three diagnostic questions. Um and so, and and Zach did a really nice job of this, where getting to that sense of identity of who am I? Um and so, you know, for example, like if uh if if your if your day rises or falls with how good you played on the golf course, well, that would indicate that your your identity is really wrapped up in your success with your hobby. Um and and a and a healthier part of that would be I love playing. It's so great to be out here. It's relaxing. I get to be with my friends, I'd get a little exercise. Um, and if I win, great, I'm even a little competitive. Winning's awesome. But if I lose, I'm not gonna be so deflated because my identity is secure in Jesus. Um and so just going through those diagnostic questions. Um, and to be honest, if a hobby is taking so much of your time that you're consistently missing Sundays in being with God's people and hearing God's word and and and praising God, if if you're consistently giving so much time to um uh to various hobbies that uh you're not reading your Bible or you're not praying or you're not engaging in church community, then that'd be an indication, again, that your heart's being pulled more towards that rather than to the giver. And we always want to be recognizing that the gift leads us to the giver rather than the gift being an end in itself.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

Yeah. Um, I think also just understanding where things are at. I mean, data makes decisions, you know, and so it is. How much time are you investing in this? How much of your treasure, how much financially are you investing in this? How much of your, what was it, time, treasure, and talents? How much of your, you know, just general personal resources are you investing in this compared to other things in your life? It doesn't mean that these are bad things, you know what I mean? And it doesn't mean if you are all in on whatever hobby it is, you know, that it's a bad thing. But in comparison to the other things in your life, is it in balance? You know what I mean? What should is it taking more time than your family?

SPEAKER_04 18:49

Totally.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

And so, you know, what's out of check there? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

The other thing I'll add, we're we were talking about this in our message planning meeting this morning. Uh Sunday's message did it had a lot more challenge to it, um, which I think sometimes we can almost be offended by because I think we expect to come to church and just be feel leave feeling great. And it's like, well, actually, like if we're following Jesus, like we we should be challenged.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

It should be a little bit hard.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Right, right, right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Like we should be growing. That's how we grow.

SPEAKER_04 19:18

Yeah. And like, I I don't want to just, I don't want to live in a fairy land that my sin is okay. Like, no, I want to know what it is so I can repent of it and my and my life will improve and I'll be closer to God and my relationships will be better, all that sort of thing. Um, and and and so so with that, um, if you're on the other end of it and you felt like offended at how challenged it was, I would encourage you to take a step back and recognize, just or I guess rather remember that even if it's hard, you want the guardrail there. You want it there. Because if you're driving on that highway and you're going 20 miles over the speed limit, that guardrail keeps your car from going over the cliff. And so even if that's like, well, no, my my my life's not that bad, it's like these are really healthy guardrails for your own good, for your flourishing, for your family's flourishing. And if that means that it's a harder word or a harsher word, but it's still true, then we got to listen. And Jesus is the one who says, He who has ears, let him hear. Um, and so that that's that's a posture I found myself on Sunday because there are a couple of things I was like, oh man, well, that kind of stinks a little bit. Yeah. But that's good.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

Well, I know one that I that comes up a lot in discussion um in my realms is kids' sports and the competitive nature of sports and how that technically is a hobby, you know what I mean, but takes priority over a lot of things often and what's the right balance for that? And I don't have the right answer, you know what I mean? I am not all

Hobbies Then And Now

SPEAKER_03 21:00

three of my kids played club sports, and I know the time and financial commitment that that takes. Were any of them likely to be drafted by professional sports organizations? No. Um, however, I was all in because it was a passion of theirs. You know what I mean? And I wanted to give them every opportunity to pursue that. But at the time when my daughters were heaviest into their um club sports, I worked at a church. And so they would have games on Sunday mornings that I couldn't attend or couldn't support them in a way. Or at times we would have to balance is this something you can make it to? Or, you know, is this something you should make it to? Um, you know, the I think that is a very easy one that it becomes a a question of, oh, well, we're investing in our kids. Certainly that's the right investment. And maybe 75% of the time that is the right answer. And maybe that's just a number I put. Pulled out of nowhere, you know. But there are times when it can be that may not be the right priority compared to other things in your life. It's always, you know, in comparison to where other things are balanced. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

Yeah. Um the similarly, the three Rolfson kids that are we have, they have not been blessed with the most athletic of genetics.

SPEAKER_03 22:23

They're still young. They're still young.

SPEAKER_04 22:27

But like, like, yep, I have I have no concerns that you guys are gonna be tempted to be sports stars. You just don't have it in you. Uh but our son, who's now eight, um we were talking, uh, this would have been about a year and a half ago, about him doing baseball, youth baseball. And we were living in Connecticut at the time, and for whatever reason the the two towns that had youth baseball that he would be able to fit into, the games were always on Sundays. And we just said, sorry, buddy, we can't do that. We're not doing it. Um, we'll have to find something else. Um this past year, this past spring, um, he was a little bit older, so he's a little more excited, kind of knows more what he wants. And he said, Dad, I really want to play flag football with kids in my class. I said, Oh, okay. And like, could not be a better setup. Six Saturday mornings. Um, so it's six weeks, right? Think about the seasons that go like five months, right? Yes, it's like a month and a half, one practice a week, not on a Wednesday, and um and and and he gets to do it with his classmates while he's learning how to play football. And I'm like, this is and it's not competing with Sundays. I'm like, this is something that honestly our family like got to the point we were looking forward to it, right? It's not overwhelming our schedule. Um, but like that that was the difference for us. Whereas had we tried to say yes to the Sunday activity, it would have meant that we would have sacrificed a significant part of what we say we most value, which is just time with the Lord and time with this church. Um, and so it it again, that's where it's like, how can we, how can we be thinking about this? And everybody's situation is different, right? And it's oh yes, and it's so you can't paint with too broad of a brush. But that's where I think these diagnostic questions are really helpful if we're honest with ourselves and we're saying, Lord, I genuinely do want to follow you, then to say, okay, am and is this hobby actually replacing my relationship with God? Is this hobby actually damaging my relationship? And just being able to be honest with ourselves, like God will work through that.

SPEAKER_03 24:31

Yeah, that's definitely good. All right. Can you share a personal experience where you had to re-evaluate the role of a hobby and what it was playing in your life?

SPEAKER_04 24:42

I feel like I've always re-evaluated. Um, okay. First thing I'll say is Zach had this kind of uh aside where he, you know, he's a golfer. I am not a golfer. Um, and it's not that I don't enjoy it, I'm just terrible. Like I'm just not just bad. Um, Zach is really good. And in fact, his son is really, really good. Um and anyway, so so he said, you know, I he said he had to set aside the hobby for a time because if the kids were so young, turns out working all week and then telling your wife that you're gonna be gone for five, six, maybe seven hours on a Saturday is probably not the wisest of moves.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Not a great investment in the marriage sometimes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

So I'll just start with like there's not a lot of extra time in my life. At the stage you're at right now, yes. Kids 10, 8, and 4. Um, the thing that I I feel like I'm I'm always wrestling with is when it comes to like watching sports. And so football season, I love watching football. I love going to high school games, I love college football, I love NFL. And the way that they have built this schedule now, it's almost like social media algorithm level of savvy where it's like, how many possible hours of the week can we put a football game on television?

unknown 26:10

I guess.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

I can remember growing up where there was one night a week. Pro was on one night a week, college was on Saturdays. That was it. So it's very different now.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

Yeah. Um, and so you know, everything in moderation, all sort of thing. But like, yeah, there are there are weekends in the fall where I'll like I'll look back and like I spent way more time in front of the television. And it's never fully in front of the television, right? I'll be like answering emails or like watching it with Theo. It's like, yeah, I I I I need to I need to pull back. Um, and and so then it what I've found is most helpful is if I replace it with something that I know is more wholesome rather than just trying to like avoid it, because then I'll just end right back there. And so what works often well for our family, especially on like Saturdays, is for us to schedule some sort of family thing that we're doing together. It's even best if it's outside, maybe, or maybe it's a project I'm working on. Um, and so then it's like, okay, I feel like I'm a little bit more imbalance. Um, and I'm not just giving so much of my life to the pig skin

Three Guardrails To Stay Balanced

SPEAKER_04 27:20

football.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

What about you, Dina? What confession do you have to make on the Beyond Summit podcast?

SPEAKER_03 27:26

Here's a confession that may surprise some of our listeners. So I am a gamer.

SPEAKER_04 27:30

Um like a like a video game? Oh, tell us more.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Um yeah, so I am not the typical video gamer, but I am limited in my video game. So I I don't know if I can really claim the title gamer because I play like two or three games and that's it. But for 20 plus years now, I have played somewhat normally or regularly a game called the World of Warcraft. Oh, yeah. Which I know some people have a lot of controversy over. So I would love to discuss with you where this fits in my life. Come talk to me. But um, it was something that my husband started doing at the time that this game came out. And he enjoyed playing video games. And when he first started playing it, he was playing it like every night of the week. He would go down um to his computer and play. And I can remember kidding him about the time he was investing in this. And he was like, oh, it's just time. He had a free month subscription. Like the first month was free, you know, of the purchase of the game. So he was playing his 30 days. And I was like, okay, whatever, this will be done. I was happily engaged in scrapbooking as a different hobby at that time. So this was, we'd go downstairs and I'd scrapbook and he'd play his game. On the last like three days of his game subscription, he said, and I grew up with brothers. I had two older brothers, no sisters, so and a lot of boys in my neighborhood. So I was somewhat familiar with video games already. I had an in television growing up. That's a that's a unique, you know, my my age group. But on the last three days of his subscription, he said, you know what, Dina, I think you might enjoy this. Do you want to come play a little bit before this goes away? Because he had no intention of renewing it because it was uh a monthly cost that you paid. It was an online game. And so um I was like, sure, I'll mess around with it. I sat down and played for probably a couple hours that night. Um, three days later, when his subscription was supposed to expire, we were renewing his subscription. I was getting my own subscription and we were upgrading our computers so that we could play this game more. Now, at the time, I had no idea how long this would last. Um, World of Warcraft is a game where you play online with other people and people can form what's called guilds and their community groups within the game. And I will say that the guild that we found very early in the game are people that some of whom I have met in real life since then. I have watched their kids grow up. Um, I have uh talked to them through their weddings, through their divorces, through deaths of their parents, deaths of their children, um, and have gotten to know it is an entire community that has come out of this fluke video game that my husband at the time said, why don't you just give this a try? Um, but I enjoy the gaming aspect of it. But there was also a period shortly after we first got into it where that was all we did. We would come home from work or whatever practices our kids had or activities, and that was what we were spending all of our time in the evening doing. And it was at a level that was not healthy. Um, and so there was a point where I was like, okay, I felt like I was getting all of the things I needed from this. I was still handling my family activities, but uh I was enjoying community of this game and not community face-to-face. Um, I was not, I was still attending church, but I was not engaging in my small group outside of that. You know, there were things that had just fallen off of the wayside because of this was the new shiny toy that we were very invested in. And so I can remember a check of, okay, this is great in moderation. Yeah, you know, but there needs to be that boundary then of what it is, what it is and what it isn't. Um, but I still, I still play now and then.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

So, okay, help me understand because I'm not as familiar with World of Warcraft. Do you communicate with the guild only when you're playing? Like do you set up times that you're all playing together, or do you get to the point where you share each other's phone numbers and stuff?

SPEAKER_03 31:33

So every guild is different. Our guild has most of the people have been in it for as long as I've been playing. And so I have many people's phone numbers.

SPEAKER_00 31:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Um, but I would say in general, the guild kind of becomes an online resource. So a lot of guilds will have a discourse channel or Discord channel where people just check in when they're playing. But then um you do have set times where we all come together to do what's called a raid, which is 25 people working together to accomplish one boss kill.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

I cannot wait for the Beyond Sunday glossary to be published for World of Warcraft. A raid, a guild. What'd you say? Boss something?

SPEAKER_03 32:18

Yes, you fight a boss, you have a raid where you go into a dungeon and you fight the dungeon, maybe has seven or eight bosses, and it takes all 25 of the people, and some are tanks, and some are damage, and some are healers, and everyone has to work together, and you have to, when the fire shoots on the floor, you have to get out of the fire. So run out of the fire. You know, like there's there's all these components to it that is like any video game, you know what I mean? Like you gotta hop over the the bad things or whatever in Mario, just the the same way here. Um, but you're working with 25 other people. At one point it was 40 people that were in these larger raids where um, and there's a sense of accomplishment with with that. When everyone does their part and you beat the quote unquote video game boss, yeah. Um, there's a little, there's a there's a little high there. You know what I mean? Like it's a win and that's uh engaging.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

I think regardless of the hobby, um uh when it can be done in a relationship-building capacity, it immediately becomes more redemptive.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:26

Um, it still doesn't make it categorically good, but it like it sets itself up so much more, be like, well, there there really is legit value here. Um and and so the what was the story that Zach shared of someone in our congregation? I don't remember the name, but like like comic book collecting that then like gathers people together to do the same thing. And then they're also like raising money to support veterans as they reorient back back into the world, right? Like, man, anytime hobbies can be stacked with community and purpose, whoa. Um, and and but like but even what I'm hearing, like the the the purpose part would even be hit when you're de when you're working with people through some of the most difficult challenges of their life. Yeah. And my guess is Deanna, you didn't like take your Christian hat off. No, like you're a Christian wherever you go.

SPEAKER_03 34:18

I would say most of the people there know that I work for a church. They apologize to me when they accidentally cuss. I apologize to them if I accidentally cuss. I am not beyond sin. Um

When Hobbies Crowd Out Life

SPEAKER_03 34:31

I am a broken human being.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

And if you want to know what Dina's handle is on World of Warcraft, you can email her at D I N A at Kingofkings.org.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Yes. Recently I have started playing a game called Marvel Rivals with my children. Okay, which is quite uh to play with my children to enjoy. I mean, I'm a board game person. I like like game night and stuff. This is just in a different setting. Yeah um, but it's the same type of thing. It's enjoyable, but you get to play with the people you you like too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:02

I've heard from a couple of our families out in Fremont that um gaming has become a a family piece. And again, it's like that that just makes it more more redemptive and and and honestly it brings more joy. Um, so one thing uh I d I think like part of our sinful condition is that we are just prone to addiction.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

And and so for for some it is drinking, for others it's drugs, for others it's lust, um, for others it's food. Um, but like it's it's almost like there's gonna be a weakness somewhere, and so often like these sorts of hobbies, especially when we like first get into it, it's like it became it'd be all consuming. Um so I I guess if there's anyone on the other side that's like, yeah, that's me right now, and you like don't know, you like know it's not good, but you also enjoy it, but you also know it's not good, you're like, what do I do? The Christian discipline of fasting is really significant. Um, and the and the Christian practice of Sabbath is really significant. Um, so if if for example, you know that you have an issue with this good thing, right? A good a video game be a good thing, but you're just all consumed by it, then to have some sort of time throughout your week where it's like, I am not like for this 25-hour period, we're not gonna touch it. Um or you just say, for my good, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give it up for this these two weeks just to kind of kind of detox my system a little bit. Um, for me, like I I I kind of do my most kind of fasting during Lent.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:37

And like I drink coffee nonstop. I whatever, I love whiskey, all that sort of thing. Um, but during Lent, I'm like, I'm gonna turn off those faucets. It's way easier for me to just say I'm done with that for a little while than it is like I'm just gonna pull back a little bit. Right. It's like I just don't trust myself.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Like I just know it's like, well, it's too easy to make excuses to go around your own boundaries. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 37:00

Um, and so, listener, if you're wondering, like, man, how do I take steps to grow here? Um, look into the Christian discipline of fasting and Sabbath so that, and again, this is the the whole heart of the hobbies thing is so that this good thing from God doesn't become a God and instead it can stay in that place of gift.

SPEAKER_03 37:18

Yeah. That's good. Well put. All right. What role does community play in our engagement with hobbies and how can we use this to strengthen our faith and spiritual relationships? I would say um we know that Christ wants us in community. I mean, that is how he designs us. He designed us to crave that, he designed us, he wired us that way. Um and it is easy to find something that replaces that community. Well, just like what I was talking about. I had found a community in this video game that was a real people having real conversations, but it is not the same community as what I would find in my spiritual relationships, in my connect group, in my regular, who do I sit by at church? You know, that kind of thing. Um, and so how can we use our hobbies to help build that community with the people that we know share our beliefs or with the people that we are trying to bring into our beliefs or teach about our beliefs? How can we maybe invite one of our my four that we're praying for into our hobby? You know, would they like to go golfing with us on a day or something like that? I think this is a big challenge. I think uh we are too easy to separate things into bubbles.

SPEAKER_01 38:43

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:43

And our church bubble is separate from our hobby bubble unless it had developed specifically otherwise. And so we don't cross the streams like Ghostbusters, you know. But um I think it just takes us stepping outside of our comfort zone and making those invites and looking for ways to cross those streams.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Yeah. I was in a a conference probably two years ago listening to Chris Hodges. He's the former pastor from uh Church of the Highlands in Birmingham, Alabama. Birmingham? Somewhere in Alabama.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

I think so.

SPEAKER_04 39:16

Sorry, Alabama's that are listening to this podcast. Um and and he he, you know, it's sometimes it's the things that like in in a talk that you knew he like wasn't planning on saying, but it was just an aside. And and he was he was sharing briefly how he's he said, anything that he does, he brings someone with him. And so he then the reason he was doing that is that he had brought someone with him from Alabama who's like interested in and like stepping up into being like a lead pastor at some point and it's kind of investigating, kind of um recovering from a few things. And I don't do this perfectly at all, but I've thought more about it in like, man, what does it look like for me to just bring someone else along? And so uh with um, for example, like visitations, um, what if uh uh uh for shut-ins, that sort of deal. Um, of course it's great if I come, but like what's stopping me from inviting someone else to come with me? Uh, you know, VBS last week, uh, we uh our wonderful Fremont children well surpassed their goal of a thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_03 40:31

Oh my goodness, did they ever?

SPEAKER_04 40:32

Yeah, and so the the goal was a thousand dollars to go towards uh Forever Home, which is kind of like an animal recovery, is that kind of you would describe it? Yeah. Um organization, and then towards uh Phineas, the comfort dog out of Trinity Lutheran. Um and the kids raised 1,800. Which which is great. And so so Christy, our associate director, she and I were just talking earlier today. She's like, Yeah, we should we should get those um those check deliveries scheduled, like should we just mail it? It's like should we show up? Like, I don't know. And then it dawned on me, like we should get some of the kids to come help us do this.

Fasting And Sabbath For Reset

SPEAKER_04 41:05

Um and so we're organizing that. Um, but in terms of like there in most cases in what we're doing in life, and it does not, I mean, I'm using ministry examples because that's my world, but um man, even if you're just like going shopping to menards, there nothing's stopping you from sending a quick text and saying, Hey, you want to come join me for this? Hey, I'm going to go into the gym later today to play pickleball, you want to join? Um, and and and because of how God has like arranged his creation relationships, like you said, is just kind of wired into to who we are. Therefore, anything we do, doing it with people, like it uh it automatically accentuates it. Um, so you know, again, this is probably thinking too much in the church world, but like night to shine, right? It's a great opportunity. Just bring other people into it. They want to help. Uh, we the DBS is going on now, but our back to school events are gonna be happening. Um, what, first week of August? You're the events person, you know this. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

First week of August, you are correct.

SPEAKER_04 42:09

Um like, hey, you wanna you want to come help uh give school supplies to kids?

SPEAKER_03 42:14

I I use that philosophy all the time when I'm talking to volunteers who maybe are wanting to step up as a Sunday morning volunteer. Oh, I'd like to maybe help make coffee or serve coffee or greet. And if they're a little bit nervous, I'm like, who do you know that you want to invite into this also? Like, let's have you do it together. You can sign up as a pair.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 42:33

I would love to have two people and God would smile on both of you sharing your joy together with others. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:41

My wife, Aaliyah, um, she when after we moved to Fremont, she and her best friend started talking about like, what do we want to do for a job? You know, that sort of thing. I said, we're gonna start a flower business together. And and so Aaliyah has been working with her best friend Valisa to arrange floral bouquets. And they're beautiful. Oh my goodness. I mean, they're legit really beautiful. She'll come home, she's like, Do you think this is a nice bouquet? I was like, Yes, of course I do. And I'm not like and I'm not just saying that, like, these are amazing bouquets.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

The her cousin's getting married on Friday, and so they're they're building her bridal bouquet uh tomorrow or the next day. Um but like the again, it's the chance to do something that you love, um, you enjoy it, and then be able to do it with someone else, where you're able to build relationship, connect, um, and uh pray together and and talk about the the fun things and the hard things and everything in between. Um, it's it's what makes um this life that Jesus says that he came to give us life and life abundantly, or life to the full. This is one of the things that can really make that life to the full happen when we really press into it.

SPEAKER_03 43:57

Yeah, that's really good. Okay, the idea of using hobbies to glorify God was mentioned by Zach in this sermon. What are some creative ways we can integrate faith with our hobbies? Like if it's a hobby that's already pre-established, like let's say golfing. How can we integrate faith with that? What's your what's your brainstorming hat?

SPEAKER_04 44:21

Are you a golfer, Dina?

SPEAKER_03 44:22

I am not a golfer. I reside in a family of golfers. My brothers, my father, even my mother, my aunts, my uncles, um, yeah, we're all golfers. I learned to golf when I was young. I never enjoyed it, was never really good at it. Um, I took golf as a college course. Um paid money for it. It was a half credit. I had a scholarship. So I was just filling my, so you know, someone paid for it, but it wasn't me. I had one credit left to fill, and I took a half

Using Hobbies To Build Community

SPEAKER_03 44:55

credit of golf and a half credit of bowling.

SPEAKER_02 44:57

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 44:58

So I can tell you all of the skills that it takes to be a good golfer, but I just do not enjoy it. I do enjoy bowling though. How can I integrate faith into bowling?

SPEAKER_04 45:10

Yeah. Um, I I I just wouldn't overthink it. Um, I'm a big fan, especially when I'm working with my kids or kids at church, of like just really leaning into thank you prayers. Right. And so, God, thank you for this day. Thank you for the opportunity to be with people I love. Thank you for a chance to enjoy, enjoy this gift. Doesn't have to be anything more than that. Um like, don't feel the pressure of like, okay, I gotta make sure I share the gospel, or if I gotta make sure that I get to a really deep part of the conversation. Like, if you're just a friend and a presence of encouragement, like you carry the Holy Spirit, the light of Christ within you, you're you're gonna bring joy to other people and you're gonna walk away refreshed as well. Um, and and then I would I would probably just um using those diagnostic questions from earlier can tell when we're getting out of bounds. Um, and so like if those warning lights of anxiety or anger or um tension in relationships are showing, then it's like, okay, we're gonna we're gonna correct, we're gonna get back to where we should be, and then we can actually be enjoying the hobby the way God designed it to.

SPEAKER_03 46:19

Yeah, that's perfect. That's great. So a reminder of those three questions are is your hobby becoming your identity? Is your hobby replacing worship? And is your hobby damaging relationships? We're talking about building relationships. Is it damaging relationships? Okay, so Zach brought in the story of Solomon, um, who we always think of as just the wise man, you know. Um, and Zach referred to teach us about, referred to this to teach us about aligning sources of joy with divine satisfaction. What did we learn from that?

SPEAKER_04 46:57

Yeah, it's it's this verse here that we read it at each of our campuses. Um see if I can find it. It's in it's in Ecclesiastes chapter two. Um Wiser Fool Master. Oh, yeah, yeah. So yeah, the um all of these things, these things that we enjoy, I I receive them as from the hand of God. And then there's a phrase for without him, who could find enjoyment? Yes. And that phrase without him, like that that really is what it hinges on, right? Like if we recognize it's from the hand of God, then we can enjoy it in the context of these guardrails. But if we start doing it outside, then we start treating these things that should be in their proper places gifts as if they were the ultimate. You're taking a good thing, you're making the ultimate thing. Um, and so Solomon is just underscoring what we've been talking about this whole time. And again, God is not anti-hobby. He's not anti believe this or not, Dina, he's not anti-World of Warcraft.

SPEAKER_03 47:58

He is not. I do know that.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

Dina's testifying. My hands are up. That's right. God is God is not anti-college football. He might be anti-My Baylor, Baylor Bears who have struggled mightily the last couple of seasons.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Um they'll come around again.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Yeah, that's right. Um, but like, yeah, if we're following Jesus, if we're saying Christ is Lord, that's over all of our lives. And what a beautiful thing, back to the whole idea of God being a God of delight, that um he does want joy for us. And if we are rooted in a relationship with him, recognizing these good gifts from his hand. I mean, think about what Jesus says in the Sermon on the Mount, where he says, You, you fathers who are evil, you know how to give good gifts to your children. Think how much more your heavenly father in heaven wants to give good gifts to his children. That is the heart of God for us. Not in this like gumball machine, we ask and God gives, but in that his heart is to bless and to give us that abundant life. And then we receive and walk in it.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Yeah, that's really amazing. So um, Zach talked a little bit about the Jewish word, and I'm gonna I'm a spit when I say it. Hevel. Hevel.

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Yeah, I feel like you need to dig into I gotta get a little spit in my mouth.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

Which is like the the best translation was meaninglessness. Um, but he went so far to explain it more as I mean, almost like a an absence of anything. You know what I mean? Nothing. And that's where that's where he says like all is vanity, that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I really enjoyed that. Um, and you can you can go back and watch the sermon and hear more about that explanation.

SPEAKER_04 49:47

I think you actually see a little bit of spit fly out of his mouth to towards the camera.

SPEAKER_03 49:55

I wish I knew the minute mark when that happened. I would like to engage you listeners and let you know what you can fast forward to. Listen to the whole thing. It was great. Yeah. All right. So

Solomon, Hevel, And Closing Encouragement

SPEAKER_03 50:05

as we wrap up here, what are your final takeaways from this message on our guardrails regarding hobbies?

SPEAKER_04 50:13

I think um just being in a place of recognizing God as the giver of every good gift. Like if we, if we if we do that and we do that consistently, everything else is going to fall into place. Um, and especially on you know, coming off of Father's Day, man, if there are any dads listening, you have um the enemy whispering in your ear, nonstop, you're a failure. You don't have what it takes. Um, you should just give up now. You and like just hear it really clearly. Like, you if God is for you, who can be against you? Yes. He loves you, he's equipped you for this. You do have what it takes. Um, and following Jesus and leading your your family in whatever that looks like in this season um to do the same, like it is worth it. Um, and you can do it. You have this Holy Spirit with you, you have the love of Christ over you, you have the care of your Heavenly Father with you. Um, so let's go be about his business.

SPEAKER_03 51:12

Yeah, I um really liked towards the end, Zach talked about um trying to uh carve out time for Jesus that that may make things feel smaller. And he said Jesus doesn't make life smaller, he makes life fuller. So good. And that one really stuck with me. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much for being here today, Tyler. Um, next week is our last, right? Our last guardrails message where we're gonna talk about AI. Um, Pastor Seth is gonna take it through that. So until then, let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Thanks all the time.