Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday is a podcast where we dive into what our Church is up to, what's happening in society, go deeper into topics from Sunday mornings, and hear leadership talks from Pastor Greg Griffith. This is a podcast of King of Kings Church in Omaha, NE. Learn more at kingofkings.org.
Beyond Sunday
No Lower Calling
In this Beyond Sunday episode, Dina, Tyler, and Pastor Greg reflect on Pastor Mark Zhender’s message No Lower Calling, which redefines greatness through the lens of servant leadership. As they honor Pastor Roger Theimer’s 41 years of ministry, the conversation highlights how true joy, purpose, and impact are found not in status—but in serving others, just as Jesus taught.
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Thanks for listening!
Welcome to Beyond Sunday the King of Kings podcast, where we dive a little bit deeper into our Sunday message and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dena Newsom and I have some wonderful guests with me today. Go ahead and introduce yourselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm Greg and I'm Tyler.
Speaker 1:I'm so happy to have you here today. We are kind of experiencing a big holiday this week. I don't know if you guys know this it's International Cat Day.
Speaker 2:It's early August, okay.
Speaker 1:So my question, my opening question for you is are you a cat person, a dog person, a no, pet person? What do you?
Speaker 2:think I'll go first. Greg, I'm allergic to cats, severely allergic to cats. Our neighbors when we lived in Connecticut we just moved to Fremont what six weeks ago. Awesome people, but I couldn't be in their house longer than an hour before my eyes started getting very itchy and throat that sort of thing. So the only value that our neighbor's cats provided was that it roamed the neighborhood and rid our house of mice. So that saved us on some rodent control bills. There you go, but yeah, 100% dog people. We have two dogs. My wife has always had dogs.
Speaker 2:And we anticipate always having dogs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're no pet people. Um, we do have two parakeets and if anyone listening would like them, you can have them. Um, they're wonderful animals and they would fill your home with joy.
Speaker 2:Are these? Are these talking birds?
Speaker 3:No, they're just parakeets. They're just very loud at 6am and, um, they don't come out of the come out of the cage. So that is kind of nice, but birds are really messy and gross. So yeah, I sometimes think I could do a dog, but then, you know, I see people with their dog throwing up or their dog going to the bathroom in the house or the vet bills and I realized I don't, I don't want any of that. So, and then if it's a dog where, like it's licking, like water's like dripping from its face, I don't want that either. So I think we're pretty entrenched that we will never own animals, and I'll save my comments about cats just because I should.
Speaker 1:I have found like 80% of the pastors I know are cat haters. I didn't say that Don't put words in my mouth.
Speaker 3:Tina, I never said any of it.
Speaker 1:Our cat dislikers, I just said who acquired the birds in your house. That's what.
Speaker 3:Macy and I won't share my view on this because it's a disagreement, but Macy had a friend that wasn't even a friend. She was a senior. Macy was a freshman. She was going to college and said would you like my birds? And then apparently I said yes, and so they're supposed to only live three to five years, and when we got them they were supposed to be about three or four years old, so hopefully they're well into their aged season.
Speaker 1:You're just riding it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it'll be interesting. Macy goes to college and then Tessa is supposed to theoretically be the one who cleans up after the birds coming here. Um, I have low, low belief that that will actually happen. So then we'll see what happens, because I will not clean up after the birds, so nor will Lori.
Speaker 1:I am a dog and a cat person. I have a dog and three cats. I grew up a dog person, thought I would never be a cat person, moved in with roommates when I was in college that had cats and loved I like cats. Cats don't care if you're there or not, and I like that independence about them.
Speaker 3:I would say can I just when I will have a cat? Maybe I would. I've said we could have a cat in our house. All my girls want a cat, but I've said the only cat I will get is I want one of those hairless Sphinx cats. So I would have a hairless Sphinx cat. They supposedly behave like a dog and clean like a cat. Plus, they're a great story. And then for people that are like they're ugly. I'm like, listen, like when we have children. Sometimes our children aren't attractive but we still call them beautiful. So, um, like.
Speaker 1:So if one of our listeners has a hairless cat, that they would like to gift you that would be appropriate. Yeah, I would take it, you heard it here first.
Speaker 3:I would I would, depending on the age and making sure it has zero vet problems. If it's over halfway through its life then that seems to be the grip of that soul. I'm an 80s, 70s person, so the whole vet. Pay $40,000 for an animal is not how I was raised. Me also for an animal is not how I was raised.
Speaker 1:Me also. All right. So, switching from this International Cat Day celebration to our message this week, pastor Mark Sender joined us on Sunday at our Millard campus to preach his sending message for Pastor Roger.
Speaker 3:Timer's retirement.
Speaker 1:And it was a great message. What are you guys taking, beyond Sunday, from this message?
Speaker 3:Yeah, real quick too, just since it is International Cat Pastor Mark is deathly allergic to cats.
Speaker 1:Oh seriously, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, so great transition. What about Zach? Is that? I don't know? Is that a genetic trait? Is our allergies genetic?
Speaker 3:No idea Can't say I know, no idea yeah. But the question is what?
Speaker 1:are we taking beyond Sunday? What are you taking beyond Sunday from his message? No lower calling.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know I got to say I rarely remember a message title, like you know, for me, like when they say my title, rarely does it ever stick with me. I was telling Mark actually today he and I had lunch and I said that no lower calling title. Like I will never forget that that was a really well done and so one. I just loved how he reversed that because generally we think, pastor, no higher calling. And he took it to what you never would have put it at and and then and then, so beautifully connected to um that it, it is just a great calling to serve Jesus and and to serve others. Um and so and then and then did a really great job of honoring not only Roger but um, the impact that God has used Roger and King of Kings for here. So it was well done.
Speaker 2:The first thing I took beyond Sunday was you know, greg, you mentioned your child in the 70s and 80s. I'm not. I grew up in the 90s and so I had no idea who Lurch from the Adams family is. So I did a quick Google search and was like, oh okay, okay, I got it. But yeah, pastor Mark, just so beautifully honored Pastor Roger, who I know he's been on the last couple of weeks of podcasts and you know he's officially retired now from full-time ministry after 41 years 30 years at King of Kings, and I grew up here. So, like I went through the Kids Count curriculum, I went on the, you know, the father-son retreat and first communion and just personally like Roger's, like a second dad to me. You know we would. We didn't have family in the area, so if we got to Christmas Eve dinner we'd be hanging out with the timers. We didn't have family in the area, so if we got to Christmas Eve dinner we'd be hanging out with the timers, and so I wasn't able to be at the Millard campus on Sunday.
Speaker 2:I was out at Fremont but I was watching back the video, the whole service last night.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you guys kept it together when I saw John Peter's video come up at the end. You know, roger, he's always had such a heart for global missions and he's activated so much kingdom movement over the course of his career. I mean, john Peter was coming here once a year, once every other year since I was a kid, and sharing about the churches that are being planted in India, and you know how far can $10,000 go stateside, and then $1,000 will support 10 church planters for this next year. And the other thing that really stood out to me was when Mark was talking about the King of Kings day in heaven and it was kind of his holy imagination at work. But in reference to Roger's kingdom impact and the curriculum and with all the mission impact of how many Jesus pulling back the curtain, of how many people are in heaven, saved with Jesus for eternity due to the mission, global mission, outreach efforts of this church and specifically of what Pastor Roger did and it's just so beautiful to think about. And, you know, keeping our priorities kingdom oriented.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really enjoyed how most of the people that were here were celebrating Roger and familiar with Roger. But if someone was a newer guest with us and was unfamiliar with Roger or didn't grow up with him, I enjoyed how Mark tied each piece back to the gospel story and back to what to expect in heaven and back to our mission here on earth. That it was still a meaningful message, even if you didn't know Roger's story, and you walked away thinking Roger was an incredible servant for many years. But it was still emotional to people who didn't know about all that he's done here and I really appreciated how he tied that together.
Speaker 1:So the title no Lower Calling that comparison of no lower calling and no higher calling is something that Mark talked about. He pulled from Matthew 20, 20 to 28, which is basically when this mother of two of the disciples goes to Jesus and asks him. You know like can one of my sons sit on your right and one sit on the left? And he talks about Jesus in the last couple verses of there says not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant and whoever wants to be first must be your slave, just as the Son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many. How did that whole, just the title and that verse, speak to you? To kind of kick this off.
Speaker 2:So, being a parent of young kids, we watch a good amount of Bluey, and one of the Bluey episodes that this is either the last night or the night before, you know it's these two sisters, you know, four year old and six year old, something like that, and they were. They had the babysitter over. This babysitter would be like a single gal in her twenties and they're doing a question 20 questions thing. So one of the sisters said do you want to have kids one day? And the babysitter said, well, yeah, 20 questions thing. So one of the sisters said do you want to have kids one day? And the babysitter said, well, yeah. And then the other one said is Bosco going to be the daddy? And the babysitter says Bosco's not my friend anymore. And then they said is Bosco?
Speaker 2:not your true love. And she's like oh, I don't know. It's like is true love, not forever? And like, in the span of 30 seconds, this script just like beautifully points out something that our culture can struggle to understand and like what love actually is. And what Jesus is pointing out in Matthew 20 is what really the whole New Testament connects to is that love equals sacrifice and Jesus' love, the Father's love to us, is most shown perfectly on the sacrifice of Jesus. But now, our love to God and to the world is not marked by our feelings although certainly feelings are part of how God made us but it's marked by our actions, and so by Jesus taking that no lower calling the place of a servant, give us life as a ransom for many. Now we're called to do the same in being people that are laying down our lives for the sake of others.
Speaker 3:Yeah, as a dad with two teenage daughters, I'll have to look up who this bluey person is.
Speaker 2:Bluey and bingo.
Speaker 3:No, it's really interesting. I couldn't help but think I was just with a couple of friends of mine who had been walking through some tragedy over the last 14 months and he and I were talking, and one of the things he was talking about that made me really think differently, and especially in this realm of where our service and what our good works do. We generally think of our good works as far as not only our actions, but what are we doing as the checklist to do these things? And he posited it in a different way. He said, Greg, I can't help but wonder if the rewards and our good works will be measured, not to get us to heaven he doesn't believe that, but he said, but will be measured in how we made others feel. How did our works make others feel? Did they feel honored, Did they feel loved, Did they feel valued, Did they feel cared for?
Speaker 3:And I was thinking back to Tim Keller, who said in one of his messages it's really easy to give money, it's really hard to give time, and yet your time says to the person I really love you. And so it's a reminder to me of when we're looking at that lower calling and at that serving right and becoming last and serving last is when your time's not your own. Like you think about who you know. It talks about being a slave and being a servant, and what do those have? They don't have their own time. Their time is based on what someone else desires and we kind of often put that as like doing all the things and I was like, oh, do I make others feel? Um, not only my wife and my kids, but even the those who I would consider least in my life.
Speaker 2:Dina, I'm I'm struck by, based on what Greg just said. You said that it can be easier to to give money than our time. Um, and and what is the greater sacrifice? Because there are situations and people on earth where, like, the greater sacrifice would actually be money, but in our affluent Western culture, it's actually the opposite. And so, being willing to truly follow the example of Jesus and lay our own lives down and Mark did this so well you referenced the no lower calling and he just said that the no lower calling and the no higher calling are indeed one in the same, as Jesus just redefines what being great is and what success is in the kingdom of God. Um, and it's it's always others focused. You you know this as running so much of our guest experience here on Sundays is, it's always others-focused.
Speaker 1:Amen. So Pastor Mark kind of highlighted three different pieces of the no lower calling, and the first one that he talked about was no lower calling leads to no grander vision. What?
Speaker 3:stuck out to you about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think, when we have this right, you look at and you look in the eyes of Roger, who I just I've always said, from the day I've gotten to just a peak of this man's life, Um, and, and Roger, in our Lutheran church circles, Roger's nationally known, everyone's heard of him. Um, I've always said, you know, that man, the spirit, has used that man to bring more people into heaven than than any other pastor that I've ever encountered, and so, but I think the grander vision when I think about that, is the reminder and I love that Roger had this the reminder of the grander vision of do whatever it takes in order to reach people that don't yet know Jesus. And he sacrificed a lot. I mean, you know it's kind of a joke, but he did, he sacrificed his time. He was up at 3 am, he was in bed at 11 pm, 12 pm.
Speaker 3:There were days I mean, you walk around here at King of Kings and maybe this is not what we would classify today as like healthy ministry spots, but there's a reason you find little spots in King of Kings where there's clothing and toothbrushes and stuff, because Roger had spent all night here working. Goddard spent all night here working.
Speaker 2:And so he sacrificed a lot because he saw a grand vision to reach people that don't know. Okay, so I'm curious Do you guys remember the I think it was a video, but with a list of countries?
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what stuck out to me.
Speaker 2:Yes, Okay, did either of you know what the country or the? I don't know if it is a country, vanuatu. Had you heard of that before?
Speaker 3:No, there's a lot of countries I haven't heard of.
Speaker 1:I think it's in, like, I'm not a geography bug.
Speaker 2:Oceania area. I mean, I had to. But when you think about no grander vision, and because Roger gave himself and has given himself and is giving himself to a God-sized vision, and, greg, I see that in you as well, and certainly under Pastor Mark's leadership for all those years at King Kings, in terms of like, we don't want to be limited by our human size aspirations, but, lord, give us your dreams. And what is it? Ephesians, chapter three, verse 20,. God is able to do immeasurably more you can't even measure it immeasurably more than we ask, think or imagine, according to the greatness of his power and what he's worked in his resurrection. And as I think about myself, like the gravitational pull in just kind of everyday life is always on self, and I think the gravitational pull is to a lower vision and like how am I going to get through today? And you know what do I need? And just the mind of like, oh, I'm hungry. That's sort of like obviously the.
Speaker 2:Lord cares about the small things and the big things. But to be able to give space for the Lord to expand our horizons and wow us, I'd be curious to ask Roger now what did you see happening when all of this started 30 years ago? I don't think he went into it with the plan of let's go reach Vanuatu yeah, but he took steps of obedience, faith filled, and then the Lord came through with what only he could come through with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really liked how Mark tied this to the idea of the disciples, where Jesus walked up to them and basically said, come and follow me and they were like okay, and a couple of them left their dad in the boat and went, and I just am trying to picture that in today's world and how insane that sounds to. Just okay, I just met this person, but there's a vision for what this is going to be. And, yeah, the list of credits of countries. I wonder when Roger first sat down and said, hey, I think we should write a curriculum, like, did he even imagine that that was going to be the case? The thousands of kids that were affected.
Speaker 2:Can I interject a question?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, greg, one of your God-given responsibilities here is stewarding vision. What are some practical steps or things that you do to give space for God to breathe vision over our ministry?
Speaker 3:Yeah our ministry, yeah, I mean one. I, I bathe in prayer, um, and especially about non-specifics. You know so. So you know I preach this, but I, I pray every day at 1234, and it's for campus one, campus two, campus three, and I named those by name Campus four, I just say campus four, wherever that may be, and then I also hold everything loosely and then pray that the vision that's there is not only from God, but then, if it is from God, it's going to be much grander than I expect. And so then I hold loosely in the reality of saying this will get bigger than I can even fathom, imagine or explain. And so sometimes I love.
Speaker 3:Andy Stanley in his book Visioneering, says way too many visions of visionaries or dreams of visionaries have died because they shared it too early. And I take that as A, yes, but then B. Sometimes, when you share, people want to know all the details of exactly what this will look like and how it will happen. And the moment you do that is when now, this is just a human vision, where, if you can sit there and go, I don't know what this will look like at the end. Then you're allowing God to say and you don't need to, because he does, because he's already there, yeah.
Speaker 1:I really think of that piece of things with the Fremont campus, talking about campuses there and how nobody was like we weren't actively ready for a campus to approach us at that point of hey you know, we're a church that wants some help, and just the way things lined up and rolled out to where now you're there, tyler, and public launch is coming a month away, a month away. Yeah, I just think that's a grand vision that none of us had just yet on earth, that God had.
Speaker 1:There was left space for it, and it happened for it and it happened.
Speaker 2:I think it's really healthy for us as followers of Jesus, to be experience renewal in those things, certainly as a congregation, but then also in our personal lives, so that our vision can be lifted to kingdom mindset. And so I think it's beneficial for not just the Fremont campus but for Millard and Northwest as well to see what God is doing at Fremont. And we're recording this on what? Tuesday, august 5th. So this past Sunday we launched kids ministry at both service hours, all volunteer led, incredible, and last year at this time Sunday school would have been four to six kids, and this past Sunday, first time kids ministry, 33 kids. And it's like you guys weren't thinking exact numbers of what it would look like, but you knew the direction and then you just let God do the rest.
Speaker 1:It's been amazing. So Pastor Mark's second point that he kind of moved on to was no lower calling becomes the evidence of no greater love. What jumped out at you about that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I probably could have saved what I said earlier for this it all ties together, that's right one just props to Mark for just how he shaped all of this and seeing those like, yeah, no lower calling, no higher joy, no greater love. I mean he referenced the famous verse out of John 15. We hear it out of the mouth of Jesus Often here applied in like Memorial Day scenarios when we think about those who have paid the ultimate price in serving our country. But again, the greater love is expressed in action and it's not that the feeling is there or isn't there, but it is defined by the action of sacrifice. But it is defined by the action of sacrifice. And Jesus says there's no greater love than laying your life down for those you love.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's where I remembered is just the sacrificing of who. You are right, we generally put this into the physical life, death, but again, giving up your life, giving up your time, giving up your comfort, giving up and this isn't like. I don't even think this is always a permanent piece. I think this is sometimes a piece where you're saying for this season, for this time, and how are you doing that for others and showing that greater love? And really what it is is, it's putting a person first and not saying I'm putting you first, but they'll see it, they'll know it when it happens, they'll be grateful and they'll recognize that you gave up a piece of your life and your life in that moment for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really liked Mark just basically said Jesus didn't just say it, he did it, like it wasn't just preaching, it was he did it. And I was touched by when he was talking about when his grandkids were staying there and he was talking about just watching them sleep. I love you.
Speaker 1:I love you, I love you. I have two grandkids and I just know that feeling. I love you, I love you, I love you, and how much greater the love God has for us than even we can experience here on earth. So his final point that he moved on to was no lower calling leads to no higher joy. How did that hit you?
Speaker 2:This is the part where we had the picture of Mount Kilimanjaro. Is that right?
Speaker 1:I think so Unreal 19,000 feet.
Speaker 2:I mean, roger is the guy who set out to run a full marathon before the age of 50 and he ran it like the day before he turned 50. Um, so just what a remarkable man. Um, the? And so Mark kind of used that mountain idea to talk about the spiritual mountaintops that we lead others to and the heightened joy and there's no higher joy than being known by Jesus. And you know, I lived it.
Speaker 2:I worked alongside the man for a number of years. He knew that kids spoke the language of fun and he was going to speak that language to get them to hear the gospel and so to again to lay aside his preferences or anything like that, to meet kids where they are and then lead them to Jesus. And I was out at the Soaring Wings event on Sunday night. I'm like we're talking. We're talking 600 kids a year over the course of that ministry. We're talking thousands upon thousands of kids that got connected to Jesus through that man's ministry just here at King and Kings, not to mention then all of those around the country and the world through that scrolling video. Like it's just unfathomable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I think when you find, when you find your purpose and your passion and this is why I really believe in our spiritual gifts test when you find that, and then you do that and this is Gallup poll, writing living your strengths right when you do that and you realize you're doing what God wired you to do, there is no greater joy and it doesn't feel like work, it doesn't feel like this was hard, it doesn't mean you don't have hard seasons but you just go.
Speaker 3:I'm meant for this, I'm wired for this, and I think it's an important piece to remember that, as we look at that, it doesn't mean that every person's to be a kids minister, it doesn't mean that every person's to be a marathoner, but, man, when you are doing that.
Speaker 3:But what it does mean is every person does have a purpose, and so when you find that and you are doing that, um, there's no greater joy in that, because you're living out the way God wired you, the way he, the way he called you, and you know, and, and I think in our day and age, one of the things I'm always reminded of is, unfortunately we live in a culture that is so comparison driven Um, and I don't, I don't think, I don't believe that Paul probably had. I don't believe Paul had the gift of encouragement. I don't think he was an encourager. I think he was probably a little crabby. He's a little more blunt, a little more blunt, very passionate. But I also don't think he looked and said, gosh, why can't I encourage like Barnabas? I don't, I don't. I don't think he had the comparison, I don't think he looked and said, gosh, why can't I encourage like Barnabas?
Speaker 3:I don't think he had the comparison, I don't think he had the jealousy, and we have to remember that, that when we're living our calling, there won't be any greater joy and our joy doesn't have to be everyone else's joy and their joy doesn't have to be our joy. Climbing a 19er to me would not be joyful. I'm a 13er, I can get to 13,000 feet and then I'm done. But you know, like sending me on a mission trip or giving me a coffee with someone and just being able to hear their story, like I love it, there's no greater joy for me no greater joy for me.
Speaker 1:I knew of Roger. Before I knew Roger, I did ministry at another church here in town for many years and would hear stories of Roger Tymer and half the stories I heard were unbelievable. Like what, no, nobody did that. What he's crazy. Like had this insane picture of him and then when I met him, and just the joy that radiates of him. Like had this insane picture of him and then when I met him, and just the joy that radiates of him, like it just oozes out his pores, I was like, oh, now I get it. Like no, these are real stories, because that's just what lights his fire. Like that's amazing to see. So as we wrap up today, I have two questions for you. The first one is what's your final takeaway from this message? Like, what are you taking with you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think for me it's a reminder that we all have a calling and so how are we living out in that calling to serve? And then two, I think with Roger, it's a reminder for me of Paul's words. Right, a few of them, but the two that stick out to me, three really would be right. I rejoice always, I rejoice always, I will say it again I rejoice for you, and then I'm thankful for you as a minister and a partner in the gospel. And then, lastly, because Roger has a little competitive spirit in him right, and I think he really tried to do this and did it well to outdo one another in brotherly love and affection. And so I always have heroes of faith that I kind of put up as well, and Roger definitely sits in that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, greg, that's where my mind and heart was as well. You know, I'm in my early 30s and it's strange to think about okay, can I make it? Doing this for the next four decades, and so seeing Roger not just tolerating ministry but thoroughly enjoying his calling, following where Jesus has taken him Eugene Peterson talks about discipleship is like a long obedience in the same direction. Eugene Peterson talks about discipleship is like a long obedience in the same direction, and the power of enduring in the faith and persisting, persevering Like I'm thinking about what I'm taking is like Lord. Thank you for that picture of Roger and the countless of other saints and leaders that have gone before that like they've done it, not never perfectly, of course, but the Spirit's empowered them and that same Spirit lives in me.
Speaker 1:I can look to them and I can look to Jesus and I can make it. I really was spending time thinking about all of the impact that Roger has that he may never see. You know what I mean. Like, even as he steps out of ministry, there's thousands of kids that are affected that he is never going to personally know, and I just try to remember that there are people I'm going to affect in whatever small thing that I'm doing for the kingdom that I may never know about and to be honored in the doing and honoring in the doing. You know to remember that piece of things, okay, so before we go, do you have like a like a short life lesson that Roger has taught you in your time you've known him, is there? The only thing I can think of and I've only known him, known him for a couple of years is just to spread joy, like I just feel, like I said, it just oozes out of him and that's what I think of to continue to spread joy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just I had to think of his love for the scriptures and he is relentless in pointing to Jesus and whether that's in all of life or ministry, like just keeping the main thing, the main thing industry, like just keeping the main thing.
Speaker 3:The main thing, yeah, I I think um getting to walk alongside Roger um in both in leadership roles for the last six years. What I've really appreciated about Roger is um he's the ultimate team player. Even if he didn't agree, he was willing to take the role and say, great, how can I help? And that's hard to find, and especially hard to find in someone that is a visionary, is innovative and is a leader, and he was willing to always do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thank you guys so much for being here. Next week we start our new message series Game. On which should be exciting. No-transcript.
