Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday
God, Where Is Your Justice?
In this Beyond Sunday episode, Dina is joined by Julie and Kate to wrestle with the question, “Where is God in injustice?” Through personal stories, honest reflections, and a powerful look at Psalm 73, they explore how trusting God’s perspective, leaning into community, and inviting Jesus into our pain can lead to deeper faith—even when answers are hard to find.
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Thanks for listening!
Hello and welcome to Beyond Sunday, the podcast where we dive into the King of Kings message series each week and see what we're taking Beyond Sunday. My name is Dena Newsom and I am blessed with some wonderful companionship today. Go ahead and introduce yourself, ladies.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Julie Easley. I'm the executive director here at King of Kings.
Speaker 3:And I'm Kate Solberg and I'm the associate campus director at our Northwest campus.
Speaker 1:Welcome. You know, this week we had a big holiday it was Mother's Day.
Speaker 2:It was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and both of you are mothers and daughters, so my start off question for you today is what is like your best memory of a mothering experience? It could be something that's really heartfelt, or it could be something that always makes you laugh, you know, and it can be on the mother side or on the daughter side, you know what's a mothering experience that you think of fondly.
Speaker 2:So I have a picture that I share sometimes on Facebook of me and my mom. I was the oldest of three girls and my mom was, just in my mind, almost the idealized mother, just so patient and loving, and there's a picture of us. Now this is going to really date me right, because this is so old. But for Christmas one year I got a Marie Osmond you know those styling heads where you could put the makeup on the doll and do her hair Picture of my mom just sitting with me as I was, you know, kind of putting the makeup on Marie and she just would get down on the floor and just spend time. You know that was. She was such a patient giving is such a patient, is such a patient giving person. And just thinking about that, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Now that my kids are older, I kind of miss. When they made something at school that week and it was like in a secret pocket in their backpack. Their teacher was like, put it in your backpack, wait till Sunday, and then you'd see them coming down the stairs with something hidden in their hand, so sweet, homemade and painted, and you know just precious, I know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just love it. How about you?
Speaker 1:My best memories of my mom, or of me and my kids, are all like making fun of each other. I have such a heart for a sense of humor, like and being able to laugh at yourself, and my mom just used to make up phrases Like I don't know, she, she um scared my brothers in the bushes one night when they were playing outside with their friends when they were like early teenagers and they started calling her ninja mom, and so she was ninja mom forever. So I think of that and that's funny. Or this one time she was very frustrated with something that she was talking about and she was like that's just a load of crap on a crap stick, and that's now a phrase that my whole family uses on the regular.
Speaker 2:I love it no one else.
Speaker 1:Knows they look at us like we're nuts To me those are just those fun memories. Or knows they look at us like we're nuts, but to me those are just those fun memories. Or recently my family went on a trip and my kids planned everything. I have children that are adults, are almost adults, and so I was just kind of along for the ride. I never knew what was happening, but I was just so happy to be on the trip and my two of my kids turned to me and said mom, you're like the golden retriever of travel, you're just along for the for the ride, you're happy no matter what, you're just along for the ride, and so that was like a month ago and since then they've called me a golden retriever multiple times and some people may take offense at that, but I love it.
Speaker 2:I think it's sweet and it fits with your blonde hair too.
Speaker 3:Golden retrievers are like the best dogs ever. Definitely a compliment, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's cute. Well, transitioning from, you know, some fond memories to, sometimes even in motherhood, where we may wonder why are these things happening. And so our message is week four of our Where's God series, and Pastor Greg this week talked about God, where is your justice? And the core of this was hey, god, do you see what's happening here Like things that are fair, things that are unfair, and what we see as God's response to that. And so what's your biggest thing that you're taking beyond Sunday?
Speaker 2:And so what's your biggest thing that you're taking beyond Sunday? Yeah, I just think away pressing in and being honest about what's challenging or what you don't understand. I think about scripture all the like. I'm going through the Psalms right now in my personal devotions and so much of it is complaining to God or saying like where are you and why aren't you answering? And please come rescue me right now. And I just love being challenged to engage God on that level. When things are tough, not pull away, but to press in.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thought that was great too. I thought that was great too. Just turning that question from where are you to where am I? And because I do think it's often tempting to you know, turn away from God or doubt Him or say this is not working out like I had hoped and thinking God let you down, yeah, so yeah, that was good.
Speaker 1:I think this series and I guess I'm lucky enough to sit in here each week where we get to dive in a little bit more and sit with different people that bring up and I just see this reoccurring theme of during struggles and during waiting and during feeling like we're wanting justice, there's an isolation that happens and the answer always is community.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Turning towards God and turning towards others, and I really liked the story that Greg told about the girl who went and sat by the isolated girl at the lunch table.
Speaker 2:Oh so powerful. Yes, girl at the lunch table, oh so powerful.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's where I just really felt like that's whether we're the girl who is isolated and being open to someone else bringing us in, or we're the person who goes and sits by that person, who is going through the struggle, like I just. But it's just this theme during all of these, of where is God and he's always with us, but we can be with each other too that really has been growing and speaking to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just that kind of courageous step out like in that story, someone being courageous to step out and take the first move towards someone. And I think when we're feeling isolated it's really easy to think you know no one's calling me, no one's inviting me, no one's asking me, no one's inquiring of me, and just saying you know what's within my power to do, I can actually make a reach out, trusting that God's going to make a good connection there or that someone else is. I mean, like everybody struggles in some way. Who wouldn't want to be invited to a conversation? I think most people would be open to that. So instead of saying you know, I guess this just isn't in the cards for me. What's one thing you could do this week to help yourself become less isolated?
Speaker 1:Definitely so. Pastor Greg started with saying sometimes we may feel like the wicked is winning in our world when we look around at our world and this isn't fair. How could this happen? Can you share a time when maybe you felt that way in your life, or some experience that you went through that you were like okay, why is this happening? This is not fair? Yeah, not fair.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, you both know that I went through breast cancer in 2016, 2017, and met a lot of women going through that same challenge and praise God, I went through chemotherapy and then surgery and when they did that surgery, they found no evidence of cancer, which was a miracle blessing. I don't know all of those things and but I've had friends do that same procedure and have the exact opposite, where their cancer not only was still there, but it grew bigger.
Speaker 3:And so I, one friend in particular. Her cancer, um, grew through her treatment and she ended up passing away and she was younger than me and her children were younger than my children, and that was so hard, yeah. And you know something I prayed about, um, still pray about, you know. I mean there's no way you could make sense of it, but just yield, like Greg talked about yielding, just handing it to God and saying your ways are higher than mine.
Speaker 1:I can't make sense of it.
Speaker 3:Here's what I do know like how Psalm 73 starts Truly, god is good to Israel, to those whose hearts are pure. I know that's true and, like Greg said, I think he was talking to himself, reminding him of what is true. And that's what I have to do. God is still good, he's still on the throne, he has a plan. I would maybe turn out things differently if I had the power to take her cancer away. I would have loved to do that, but I don't have the power.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I saw a little clip by Tim Keller, who actually passed away from cancer not that long ago, and he was talking about you know. We may say to God you know I would have. I thought life should have turned out this way, but I don't know. If I knew what you know, right, then maybe I would have made the same choice and just kind of being open-handed and saying like, truly I don't know, and that sort of humility before the Lord. That's the whole basis of yielding right. It's just saying I'm submitting to your authority, god, in all of life, and even though this is painful and doesn't make sense, I know you're good and therefore I'm going to yield. Boy, yielding is so tough, right. Yielding sounds like a weak thing to do. I'm just going to yield for this car, right. But when you think about, even in traffic, when you have to yield, you have to exercise a degree of authority over yourself to allow someone else to take precedence. To allow someone else to take precedence.
Speaker 3:So yeah, it almost made me uncomfortable in worship. When Pastor Greg was saying I disagree, god, I would have done it differently.
Speaker 1:I was like oh are you allowed to say that I'm like.
Speaker 3:I don't know about that, but I've said the same thing. I would have taken her cancer away, I would have healed her, I would have given her 50 more years with her children. Yes, so I am saying I would have done it different than you got. Yep, so I'm glad he worded it that way, because I think we all do that. Yes, yes, and we don't know, we don't see the big picture, but for some reason in our human brains we think we would make a better decision knowing this tiny bit. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I know it's hard to put it all into words.
Speaker 2:And I think what's kind of helpful too, just to remember is like we may be able to say, oh, I can identify how this was God's plan, like within 10 minutes, or maybe it'll be like five years, or it might be never.
Speaker 3:Never, never.
Speaker 2:I mean, there are certain things that are just so tough. It's like, yeah, I've got nothing and it may have to wait. And there's like You're not doing it wrong if you don't come up with a good answer, Right.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, and I always think like there was an initial point in creation where God had to decide am I going? To give these humans free will.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:Or am I just going to command them to obey me? Right, and he either chose or he knew all along along he wanted to give us free will. Yeah, he wanted his children to love him From the heart, yes, from the heart. And so I think, once he decided that that put all kinds of crazy things into place. Right, because we choose the wrong thing most of the time, unfortunately, so it's us who messes things up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, god isn't messing things up, no, I saw once on social media a quote-unquote social media summary of the Bible. God said do the things. The people said yep God, we got it. The people did not do the things. God said do the things the people said yep God, we got it. The people did not do the things God said. Do the things the people said yep God, we got it. The people did not do the things.
Speaker 2:That's basically the Old Testament in a nutshell Over and over again.
Speaker 1:But I like that. You said you were like oh, can we ask that? I don't remember now if it was in week one or week two of the series where Greg talked about God can take it. God can take our emotions. That we can be upset that he didn't make the choice that we wanted. And that's okay, he does, but we are still yielding to him that he does know better and he does know more than us.
Speaker 1:I know for me my time when I really was like this is not fair is I have two daughters, and one of them when she was in middle school, which is the hardest time in life, I think. Anyway, one day she had this great group of friends and they had been friends for years, and it was literally like the next day she went to school and she was the kid sitting alone at the lunch table. They like purposefully ousted her from the group and didn't talk to her. It's brutal.
Speaker 1:And at 12 years old, like how do I even teach her to comprehend that this too shall pass? Or this is you know. But in hindsight, after much heartache and much like knowing years later, those were not the friends she was supposed to have at that time in her life. And I really think there was some level of divine intervention that God gave her different friends that really supported her through things she was going through in a way that I know those first group of friends couldn't have.
Speaker 1:They didn't have the same background and the same understanding that would have set up the safe space for her that she needed at that time, and it's always those things that you look at in hindsight that, oh yeah, that was God's plan. But, like you said, there are some times where you never get that aha moment yeah.
Speaker 2:Aha moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so one of the things that Greg Pastor Greg really talked about was you know, we ask where is God, but how can we ask where am I? And you made a brief mention of that, kate. You know, how do we change our posture, like he was giving an example of oh, we say God is good all the time and all the the time God is good, but where is he in this situation? We ask that and God's big enough to take that question, but how do we change our posture or our view or our response in that? What are your thoughts on that? Or what spoke to you about?
Speaker 3:that I think when life is hard for me, I have to look at what's my prayer life, look like how much time am I spending in the Word? And if I'm in a bad place, those are the two things I need to do. You're never going to regret time in prayer. You're never going to regret time in prayer. You're never going to regret time in the scripture. I remember when Rebecca was eight months old and she had to have surgery on her spinal cord at Children's Hospital and you know it was like one of the worst things in my life, like watching them take her from me into the surgical suite and there's a little chapel in Children's Hospital and I literally went straight to the chapel and got down on my knees. I just I couldn't talk to anyone. I didn't want to be around people. I just needed to talk to Jesus, you know, because I was just a mess as a mom. To Jesus, you know, because I was just a mess as a mom and so, um, I don't for me, like there's I don't know where else you go.
Speaker 3:Like who, like the scripture.
Speaker 2:You know who who should we turn to you, have the words of eternal life Like.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, what was the question?
Speaker 2:again, sorry, no, I think you totally nailed it.
Speaker 1:How can we change our posture? That's yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I do think that there's a tendency in our culture just to stuff it or run away from it, right?
Speaker 2:So, although I do know that time with the Lord will be best for me, I can find myself actively resisting that for some reason. I think it's just my sin, nature, right, and so then I'll get busy doing other things, or I'm going to sit down and scroll on YouTube for a little bit and look at funny videos, try to perk myself up, but I found that the healthiest thing that I've done is during prayer time, when I'm feeling just crummy about something. I will just feel the feeling and invite Jesus into that feeling with me. Say, jesus, I love you, I know you're here, please be with me in my sadness about this situation. And then just sit there and I imagine Jesus sitting next to me while I feel really lousy, or sit with me in my anger, or sit with me in my disappointment. I name the bad feeling, I feel the bad feeling and I invite Jesus to be with me in it, and then I just sit there for a while with it. Sometimes I cry and sometimes I don't, but it's helpful to imagine him there.
Speaker 3:Sometimes I even just imagine handing that feeling, like putting it at his feet like him on the throne and me just saying here I'm just going like putting it at his feet, like him on the throne and me just saying here I'm just going to set it at your feet, Take it from me. You know, sometimes you're like I don't want to feel this way anymore, and sometimes I have to pray that prayer over and over and over here it is again.
Speaker 2:Yes, that's good.
Speaker 1:I like the imagery. I always find myself, I find you know, really physically imagining.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:This is me setting it at his feet, or here. This is him sitting beside me.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I use some of my own sometimes when I'm struggling to yield or to change my posture. There's that old song Jesus, take the wheel. I love that image of okay, jesus, you drive. Now I have a very hard time doing that. Call me a control freak, call me dominant, just self-sufficient, whatever. But I'm like okay, jesus, you can have one hand on the wheel or you can drive for a second, but I'm not going to let you sit in the driver's seat or as soon as the bump is done. Okay, I got it, I'm good, and so for me it. Especially in the last, like I don't know, five to 10 years where I've been growing, I feel like a lot at a different level in my faith as an adult. I'm like okay, dina, you need to climb into the back seat and strap yourself in and then let him have control when you're not even close to the wheel anymore.
Speaker 1:Because it's just too tempting to touch.
Speaker 2:Yep, so true.
Speaker 1:So I try to imagine that. Yeah, so one of the things that I really liked well, Greg talked about pray P-R-A-Y which I know is something you use, Kate, you know and that Y being yield and yielding control. But I liked that he said justice is not always instant but it is always inevitable. And that's where he really went into kind of talking about where it's okay to say to God where we might not have done it that way, you know, but God is going to do things in his time and it may not be in our lifetime. That something is. And I think that there's a big difference between justice and vengeance, and I think we in our human minds get those confused sometimes, Like if someone wrongs us, oh, we say we want justice, but what we're really sinfully hoping for is vengeance, and they're not the same thing, Like God's justice is very different than even God's vengeance.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, because some of those Old Testament stories are, you know, strong. God is really striking it down. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Very strong, but he still wants what's best for all of us. Mm-hmm and yeah, did you guys have any thoughts on that? That justice is not always instant, but it's always inevitable?
Speaker 3:I just thought the analogy of it being like a river was really good, because it is a river, starts so simple and small, and you know, and then grows and, like Pastor Greg said, you don't see what's under the surface, you don't see what's moving. You know, but to think God's justice is moving, it's still working. He's still working every day. We don't see it all, and it's growing and one day It'll be complete. Yes and so.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that brings me peace, yes, and just reminding myself of God's character, like he's completely just and completely loving. How great is that? Because I am neither and no one is on this earth. But just to know that the Bible talks a lot about the day of the Lord, and sometimes that seems really scary.
Speaker 2:It's like you know some of those things that you think about TV shows where they showed like Jesus coming back and it seems like oh, this could be really scary, but the day of the Lord is going to be fantastic in a lot of ways, because everything that's been wrong, all those injustices, those things that you're like I don't get it they're all going to be made right by a God who's perfectly just and perfectly loving. It's like, wow, that's going to be so satisfying. Yeah, I can't even imagine how satisfying that's going to be. No, yeah, how satisfying that's going to be no.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So one last phrase that Pastor Greg talked about was the verse that's you know, act justly, love mercy, walk humbly. And this I enjoyed selfishly, because there's a popular Christian song like this, and when my son was probably nine or 10, he would sing at the top of his lungs in the shower.
Speaker 1:But he would only know half the words to any song that he was singing and this is a song he would sing a lot and he would know the first word of each phrase and not the second, and so he would sing act, mercy love, justly like, just mix them all up. Or he'd say something, something, something something.
Speaker 1:Whatever those good things were, so, yeah, I just thought that when Greg referenced that verse, that was the first memory that I had of my son just boldly singing this. But how does that verse speak to you guys in your life?
Speaker 3:I actually had it written on my whiteboard in my office till Peter erased it.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 3:But the reason why I had it written up there in January, because you know the time of resolutions and all that. But you know, so many people say like, oh, I'm just trying to figure out what God's will is for my life. And I just feel like that verse tells me exactly what God's will is for my life. Like this is what you, you know, it's not a hide and seek game where you have to go look for it. Like this is what the Lord's called me to do. And so the wording's great Act justly Love, mercy, walk humbly with your God. Period, that's it. Do those three things.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's not complicated.
Speaker 2:Usually I was going to say it may not be complicated, but it's hard.
Speaker 3:It is hard.
Speaker 2:Right? It is Because I think about act justly. Do I always know what a just decision would be? Even in my own life? Probably not. Or as someone who works on staff, like what's it? What does being just look like? Then loving mercy?
Speaker 2:I, oh I, have a heart that can be so unmerciful sometimes towards people. I can be critical and judgmental and I'll be like, oh, you shouldn't be that way, instead of looking at people with kindness. And then you know, walking humbly before the Lord, and then you know, walking humbly before the Lord. There's still a lot of just pride in my life that I'm asking the Holy Spirit to uproot. And so, and when you think about Jesus, he was all of those things right, he did act justly.
Speaker 2:Think about all those times when he just delivered such a right judgment in the moment, on people and situations. How kind he was towards people and then how humble, right, he was. Never drawing attention towards himself, he's always pointing towards his Father or looking at other people. It's just like Jesus, help me to be more like you. Fill me, you know, not by trying harder, but just asking for an indwelling of the Holy Spirit so I can be more like you. Fill me, you know, not by trying harder, but just asking for an indwelling of the Holy Spirit so I can be more like you. Transform me from the inside out. It's a good prayer.
Speaker 1:Any final takeaways as we wrap up today.
Speaker 3:I just like the second part of Psalm 73. Go for it. Can I read?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because I love there's like a turning point, and it's verse 16, I believe, where it's the turning point. So I tried to understand why the wicked prosper. But what a difficult task it is. So that's right before. He's like they just keep making worse decisions and they keep getting richer. You know their life is so easy and I know I felt that way sometimes.
Speaker 3:But then 17 says then I went into your sanctuary, o God, and I finally understood the destiny of the wicked. Truly, you put them on a slippery path and send them sliding over the cliff to destruction, which is what will happen to all who turn from God. In an instant they are destroyed, completely, swept away by terrors. When you arise, o Lord, you will laugh at their silly ideas, as a person laughs at dreams in the morning.
Speaker 3:Then I realized that my heart was bitter and I was all torn up inside. I was so foolish and ignorant I must have sensed like a senseless animal to you. Yet I still belong to you. You hold my right hand, you guide me with your counsel, leading me to a glorious destiny. Whom have I in heaven but you? I desire you more than anything on earth. My health will fail, my spirit may grow weak, but God remains the strength of my heart. He is mine forever and I thought that is humanity. We think these crazy thoughts and evil is winning sometimes and it's disheartening. Winning sometimes and it's disheartening, but when you turn yourself to the Lord and enter His presence, that's when you're like okay, I know what's most important.
Speaker 3:I know it is eternal. That's what I need to have my focus on Love it.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. Thank you so much for being here, ladies. We'll be back next week with the final sermon in this series of Where's God, and until then, let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday you.
