Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday
Nuts & Bolts: The Systems
In this episode taken from the Nuts and Bolts series, the King of Kings podcast unpacks how prayer, fasting, and generosity form the essential systems that keep our faith alive and flowing. With honest insights and practical tools, the conversation explores how these simple practices, though hard to sustain, draw us closer to Jesus and free us from performance-driven faith.
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Thanks for listening!
Welcome to Beyond Sunday, the King of Kings podcast, where we explore the message series that we're going through and figure out what we're taking past the Sunday message. My name is Dena Newsom. I'm so happy you're joining us today and I have some amazing guests here today.
Speaker 2:I'm Kate Solberg and I'm the Associate Campus Director at our Northwest Omaha campus.
Speaker 3:And I'm Greg Griffith and I get to be the lead pastor of King of Kings.
Speaker 1:Thank you guys so much for being here today.
Speaker 3:So great.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you know this, but this week is National Cleaning Week, and so I have a question for you what is your favorite cleaning job to do and what is your least favorite cleaning job to do?
Speaker 2:You better go first. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:That's really actually very easy for me, so I love doing dishes. It's just fun and peaceful and relaxing to me, so I do dishes. That's my favorite, my least favorite is cleaning toilets.
Speaker 2:Definitely, I would say I don't like to do any type of cleaning, but I do. I don't mind laundry, especially when it's done drying. I don't mind folding or hanging laundry. I could do that all day long. That does not bother me at all. Least favorite I have a dog that sheds, so I hate cleaning baseboards. That is really annoying because they're almost instantly dirty again.
Speaker 1:Laundry is my least favorite, kate. It just seems never-ending. You finish it and you just have to do it again. I don't like that. I like crossing off things off my list, so that's my least favorite. My favorite well, I don't like any kind of cleaning either. I like organizing things, so my favorite quote unquote cleaning is like tearing apart a closet and reorganizing it, or redoing a room when my kids have moved out, I really enjoy going through everything, just close the door, sorry.
Speaker 3:You know what I hate? I hate a disorganized refrigerator.
Speaker 2:Like everything should be in its place. Don't come over to my house In its plan.
Speaker 3:I should come over. I'll organize your fridge.
Speaker 1:Now, do you like want containers in there with labels or just that? No, I don't care if it's yeah but it's sorted properly.
Speaker 3:Like there's a spot for liquids, there's a spot for leftovers. The fruit and vegetables should be in a fruit and vegetable drawer, the, you know. Everything's got its place.
Speaker 1:Now do you have a family member that really just does not care about that? All three.
Speaker 3:I have three family members that just put stuff willy-nilly and I'm like this is why we never know what's in our fridge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my son and your family members would get along really well. Yeah, it's terrible, all right. So we are in week four of our Nuts and Bolts series, where we are building the modern-day disciple, and this week we learned about the systems. So maybe you have a system for your fridge or a system for cleaning things like that. This is really about our building systems, and Pastor Zach Zender really kind of dove into this part of the Sermon of the Mount and talking about our systems and we're learning all about discipleship here, and he talked about how discipleship is a system of being and doing like the leader that we're trying to follow, and when we stop the flow, when our system is broken, things can get messy. If our system for following Jesus is broken, things get backed up, they don't work pretty, they get clogged. What did you guys take away? What was your biggest takeaway from this message this week?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I had a few. I loved a reminder that we're people that are praying, that we're people that are giving and people that are fasting. This is kind of what discipleship looks like. And so you know, I think Jesus is constantly putting us in almost a juxtaposition or conundrum, right, so right, like being with Jesus is kind of just sitting and being still, but then that doesn't mean that we don't do things. And so I think for us as Westerners, we oftentimes like it's one or another, like I'm a disciple, I'm just doing, doing, doing and going, going, going. I got to be the best disciple and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and yet I think it's kind of both and and so I kind of see it as like being with Jesus just means that I'm walking with Jesus in all that I do as a disciple.
Speaker 3:But then also, what are my marks of discipleship? And that's where our praying, giving, fasting, you know, and then many other things but in Sermon on the Mount those three are listed kind of show what our marks are. So I really appreciated that. I think it was a reminder for me about that Um and and then. And then to the reminder for me also. I think we make discipleship so difficult, and it's not, it's, it's really really quite simple, um, but it's difficult spiritually. You know, cause? Cause it's a, it's a tactic of the enemy, which is when we're in a spiritual warfare.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about how it is. Jesus makes it simple for us because we're human, but it's also impossible in the same regard, in that, when Zach talked about this is what Jesus calls us to do pray, fast, give. And not only are we supposed to do those three things, but we're supposed to do it for the right reason every time. And that's the part where I'm like dang.
Speaker 1:I have to do the right thing every time and with the right motive which seems impossible, it is which it's meant to be impossible.
Speaker 2:That's the point Right, which leads us back to Jesus, right? So?
Speaker 1:yeah, I thought, about that. Yeah. So in talking about that being and doing, do you guys consider yourself more of a be-er, more of a do-er? Which side of that do you struggle more with? Do you think in your faith I really am a doer, like I'm a do do, do, not, do, do, but do, do, do things.
Speaker 1:I'm a go-getter and I really struggle with sitting sometimes and forcing myself to slow down and just sit and be with Jesus, not just in my walk and the things that I'm doing, but really focusing on how am I growing internally? How am I growing in the word? How am I growing?
Speaker 2:in my prayer. I think I'm definitely a beer. I think I would be right there with Mary. I hope I would be at the feet of Jesus and not even knowing what Martha needed help with, I'm sure you know she'd be mad at me why isn't Kate helping?
Speaker 1:Well, you don't like to clean.
Speaker 2:No, I don't like to clean at all and if I have the choice. You know I love worship music, I love podcasts, I love sermons, I love being in my garden. I guess that's a little bit of doing, but all those like peaceful, quiet places. That's my special place.
Speaker 3:I think for me the struggle really comes down to the fact that I don't think it's actually a one or another. And so even your story with Martha and Mary, jesus didn't actually have a critique until she said will you make my sister help me? Right, and so so I think, other than that, I think Jesus was fine because it was like they're both being and doing in their own stuff. So, like you know, like, like when my daughter's in a show, like for one act, you know I'm not really with her, but when I'm at the show, like I'm being with her, I am there, I'm present, and you know what I mean. But we're not like sitting and having just a conversation, and that's my thing, that I'm looking and I'm going. I don't know that they're exclusive. I always look at it and go as a disciple, like any time. Look at it and go as a disciple, like any time.
Speaker 3:I mean Luther. I love how Luther talked about prayers and just said the deepest size of the Christian are the most heartfelt prayers to our Father, and so when we're covered in Christ, we are never not being with him, right. And then two conversely like all our works, while they may be imperfect, through Christ. They're perfect offerings to our God, and so now, intentionality is a piece that we have to always look at. You know, am I intentional in my prayers? And that's the thing when we're either critiquing others. So for me there's a serious danger when we start critiquing church Like this is worship of God. I don't care what style it is, I don't care if you like the songs, I don't care if the message just was a flat egg. God was worshiped, and so guess what? It was a great worship. Now, we have responsibilities to put those who are leading worship and have a responsibility to like, honor God with our best effort.
Speaker 3:But I think, yeah, for me I'm always looking and saying what's our intentionality behind something? You know, am I going through the motions? If I'm going through the motions of my prayer, that's dangerous. If you know, if, if I'm giving but it's not cheerfully, or if it's compulsion, or if it's, I think one thing I always notice if it's with an expectation, so like I give but I want to make sure they're doing the right things with it Wait a minute that's not actually generosity. You're just purchasing something that you want, and so we have to be really, and that's why I think God says just give and then let go, like let it happen and then fasting. Am I fasting to say like I'm spending time with God or I'm focused on him? Or am I fasting because I want to have a healthier day? And yeah, it just happens to coincide spiritually.
Speaker 3:I think Westerners were not super great at actually doing a food fast, and I'll be honest, maybe I'll get in trouble from some people on this, but this is accurate. The scriptures are not saying fasting from coffee or social media. It's food fasting, it's not eating. And so, you know, I found myself sometimes going oh I'll do a fast right now, but it'll be a digital fast. Well, that might be something that distracts you from God, but that's not the biblical fast he's talking about, and so I just have to be aware of that. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying be aware of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Zach brought up some games that we play in our culture, that we really have like an honor-shame culture which, carried over from the Pharisees at that time, was very much an honor-shame thing in that is the idea of this underlying criticism of Christians, that talks about how Christians generally are seen as hypocritical by those outside of the church and that that's a common worldview. What do you guys think of that? What makes it hard to break that view? What are your thoughts there?
Speaker 2:I think the only way we can break it is one relationship at a time. The only thing I can control is the people that I know and the relationship I have with that person, and I think if people are looking to other humans as to what Christianity is, that's okay, but really they need to be looking to who Jesus is and what the Word says about Him to determine what Christianity is. None of us humans are going to live up to His standard. We're going to fall short, obviously, but I think all of us can do a better job of honoring him better each day, just with how we live and how we speak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's well said. I agree with everything, kate. I think you're right on on that. I think, first of all, christians are hypocrites. Every human being is a hypocrite. We all have things that we say and then we don't do. That's why the saying is don't do what I say or don't do what I say, don't do what I do. And so Paul even struggled with this. So I do the things that I don't want to do, but yet I found myself still doing them. So we have to be really careful when we are looking at that, I think.
Speaker 3:When it's blatant hypocrisy. So you know, if it's kind of like, oh yeah, I'm just going through the motion on this, then that's really dangerous and you know that's just not going to go well with everything and that's just not going to go well with everything. I have a friend that his church sign just says whatever their church name is and then it says no perfect people allowed. And so when and I have an ex-brother-in-law who struggled with Jesus because of the hypocrisy through his own family, and I always am reminded, even with everybody, kate's so right, we're following Jesus, like if you're following me, if you're following Jesus because of me and what I do, I'm going to let you down. So honestly, you won't be a follower of Jesus eventually, because I'll disappoint you, I'll let you down. But if you know and so, so like I'm in, I'm part of the church because I love Jesus in spite of the people, and that's the reality of it, and so, like I look and go, this is all my body right, cause that's what we are, we're the one body of Christ. But sometimes, like, we're wounded, sometimes it hurts, um, sometimes it's there.
Speaker 3:Now, as Christians, I would say one of the things we always have to be mindful of is like where, where I think we really have to take note on this is, um, the church can actually be meanest to one another, and that that's a problem. Um, I think one of the things I have found over the past few years to remind myself about too is like for churches that have voters meetings. Would you ever invite an outsider to a voters meeting and most of us would say no? And I'd be like, why? And it's because that's like most people are like, well, people aren't nice to each other, and I'm like then maybe it shouldn't happen. You know what I mean. Like, voters meetings aren't biblical, so they're definitely Western politics. So if we're putting those situations on there, maybe we as a church should look and say why are we putting our people through this? You know so.
Speaker 1:So in Matthew 6, verses 1 through 18, zach kind of laid out Zach didn't write them, zach spoke about them today or on Sunday to kind of lay out the three practices to be sure that our system is flowing and they are giving, fasting and praying, which we've kind of mentioned already. When he talks about praying, he talks about the Lord's Prayer which is part of the Sermon of the Mount, where it's given to us, and he talks about this piece of prayer is talking about in the center of the center of the center of the center of the center, like that that is the central practice of disciples of Jesus. How do you guys find that prayer grows you, how do you find it's a challenge for you?
Speaker 2:Well, I feel like I really learned how to pray when I was in a ladies Bible study. They had the leadership meeting a few days before the Bible study met and the first part of the meeting we just all got down on our knees and prayed and we just followed that simple P-R-A-Y praise, repent, ask, yield and so really we didn't do anything before. We, just everyone gave praise to the Lord. There really wasn't like individual people repenting, just a general repentance of our sin, and we always did those two things before we asked anything. And just that repetition of weekly doing that and seeing ladies do that together totally changed how I prayed, just because I got in that same habit and found, after you praise the Lord and repent, sometimes your ask diminishes. You're like wait a minute, I just reminded my soul who the Lord is and who I am in regard to him. I really don't need anything after all. So that's, and it's based on the Lord's prayer.
Speaker 3:So yeah, that's really good, that's really good.
Speaker 3:I use that pray with my intercessors. That's what we walk through all together and yeah, it's so powerful. And yeah, it's so powerful. And the difference between ask and yield really is like yield is what are you letting control of? Go right? Like where are you just saying, not my will, but your will, be done Lord Jesus yielded in the garden, right? Yeah, I think for me.
Speaker 3:Craig Ruschel wrote a wonderful book called Dangerous Prayers. I would encourage anyone, everyone, to read it. Tremendous book. He talks a little bit about just kind of one word prayers, sentence prayers.
Speaker 3:I think it's important for us to know that we are praying people. It's a mark of discipleship, it's a conversation with God. There's no right or wrong prayers, but when it becomes I hate to use the word wrong when it becomes wrong is when there's not intentionality or it just becomes a rote memorization. The Lord's Prayer has a way for that for us. So one thing I do personally is I change language in it. So for me, when I'm praying it, not leading it, when I'm praying it in a room or there by myself, I use it. And I have to be careful, because one way I do it is I pray the Lord's Prayer while I wash my hands in the bathroom so I have to keep thinking, so it just doesn't become a thing I do. And now this is 20 seconds of me washing my hands, but is mine.
Speaker 3:I'll just say you know our Father, who is in heaven. I haven't used the word hallowed in a long time, so holy is your name. I don't ever say to a person you trespass against me, unless they're actually on my property, but I do say you've sinned against me. So I say you know, forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us. Give us our daily bread. I'm mixing the order, so I know some people on there. So that's what I'll do is turn it into some modern vernacular like ways that I actually will talk. And the first few times you do that, man, it's really like you have to actually stop and think. And so now I find myself saying, okay, keep stopping, keep thinking, using this in the way. That's a modern language way. And that's an important part for me is intentionality, I think really does matter to God. He doesn't want half-heartedness, yeah, or rote robots like that's not how he created us. To God, he doesn't want half-heartedness or rote robots. That's not how he created us to be.
Speaker 1:I grew up with a real misconception of really what prayer was.
Speaker 1:It was very much a performance and it needed to be. A certain way is what I thought, because even when I was young and in Sunday school, whoever had the job as a prayer even though what they were doing was trying to teach us how to pray they gave us like a pseudo script to work from. So I thought, okay, this is how it has to be, and it was something I was never comfortable with. And now that I'm much older and hopefully a little bit wiser, I now understand how conversational it is and my kids will ask me about my prayer and I'm like well, I just pray to God when I'm in the car, driving, because that's when I, or when I'm in the shower or, you know, before I fall asleep, and it's just a conversation. Hey God, here's how my day was and this and it's so freeing for me to not it doesn't have to be like you said, that it's not the right words, or you know it's not the right words or it's this perfect thing.
Speaker 1:It is just our hearts speaking to Him. So, kate, I know you and I had a conversation outside of this that talked a little bit about fasting. You want to tell me more about that piece of things.
Speaker 2:Well, I found a great. I really like. Zach made reference to the Bible Project, and so I love looking at their podcasts and their videos are so great and I like the definition they had. It said a way to pray with your whole body, temporarily restricting your appetite to connect with God in a posture of surrender, acknowledging only God can satisfy your deepest longings. I thought that was so beautiful. Yeah, all those thoughts into one thing and I felt convicted Sunday, because I don't regularly fast and I had a mentor in college and not many people knew, but I knew she regularly fasted on Tuesdays. It was just a regular thing on our calendar. I knew it was a day she was more spent, more time in prayer and in the word, and I've thought of that and now that I'm 25 plus years from college, that's, I still remember that and so I feel like God's like you need to think of this, and maybe it's not Tuesdays, maybe it's something else, but there's a reason I included fasting in my scripture.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I really liked how Zach kind of tied fasting and praying together where he talked about praying helps connect us with God and fasting helps us disconnect with the world so that we can really focus on that. Is there anything else you guys are really taking away from this beyond Sunday as we wrap up here up?
Speaker 3:here. Yeah, I just think, I think it's one of those things that when we right as Christians, like I would say one like we're always called to continue to strive to live as Jesus people, and that's an important part, and I think as we do that and as we put in these healthy rhythms and healthy routines, it just keeps us focused on walking with Jesus. And so I really appreciate, in the Sermon on the Mount from Jesus, I appreciate the reminder that it really is about just consistently doing the daily steps of walking with Jesus and walking with God and connecting with God. And so, as we think about that, there's no, I think it's sometimes that reminder there's no disciple who's done. You're never, you've never arrived, you never become the ideal disciple, right Like I think.
Speaker 3:I think, when we look at discipleship, I think it becomes kind of this word like like you know some and I've caught myself sometimes you know kind of saying like oh yeah, we have people who are followers of Jesus and then they're disciples of Jesus. No, no, no, you can't be a Christian without being a disciple. There's no such thing. It's incongruent.
Speaker 3:And so now is your discipleship journey farther along. There's infants and there's adults, but you're always still growing, and so and that's the thing is like, it's just that reminder that God gives us this as a lifelong journey, from whenever we encounter and begin everlasting internal life, which begins the moment that we are connected to God through Jesus. And so then your eternal life began. So I'm still in my eternal life. We've all begun our eternal life as Jesus followers. It's already happening. So it's just that ongoing journey with him, and so I've really appreciated that kind of reminder and it's an encouragement. So it doesn't, I don't know, for me it's not a, you know, sometimes, like when you're working out, like you're kind of like, will there ever be a day that I don't need to work out, you know, will there ever be a day that I cannot care about the calories in a pizza?
Speaker 3:You know and you kind of think about, you think yeah, but you kind of think about discipleship, of like, will there ever be a day where it's all easy and it's like, no, not in this life, because it's a spiritual battle. But we just keep going and we keep doing it and we keep following because we know what's to come. So I've enjoyed this series a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, one thing I thought of I have a friend who Jesus has really touched her through the Chosen series and I don't know if she really had a personal relationship with him before she started watching. And it affected her so much that when they did the filming of the Sermon on the Mount, she loaded her kids in the car and they went to be extras.
Speaker 2:And so in the credits she's like pause it. There I am. There's a long list of people, but she's there. But it makes me think of, like I always wonder, when we're in heaven with Jesus one day, if there's like a big like blockbuster video store that you can go in and like you can like pick out, like uh, partying in the red sea. I want to watch that. Like I just wonder if, like, we can pull out, you know, servant on the mount, and like experience, like, like we were there, you know, I just think that would be so amazing. And I think the answer is yes, that we're going to be able to do that. But if we can't, it's we're going to be able to do that, but if we can't, it's going to be something better than that.
Speaker 3:Yeah it will be better?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is. So we are wrapping up the sermon series this week and, pastor Greg, you're going to be preaching about the finishes, so we'll look forward to that, talking more about that next week, and until then, thank you guys for being here. Let's keep living our faith beyond Sunday.
