Beyond Sunday
Beyond Sunday is a podcast where we dive into what our Church is up to, what's happening in society, go deeper into topics from Sunday mornings, and hear leadership talks and coffee break theology from Pastor Greg Griffith. This is a podcast of King of Kings Church in Omaha & Fremont, Nebraska. Learn more at kingofkings.org.
Beyond Sunday
Favorite Verse: Caleb Haack
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What does it look like for us to love other people as Christians? We dive into 1 Corinthians 16:13-14 to unpack what the Bible has to say.
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Favorite Bible Verses and Pumpkin Patch
Speaker 1Hey there , king of Kings family , welcome into another episode of Beyond Sunday Sermons , the podcast where we take a Sunday message and just break it down a little bit further , get some extra insights and get some extra voices to talk about them . And we are continuing our series right now called favorite verse , which I think has just been really , really cool , and that we've gone to different staff members and just been like hey , what's your life first ? You know , if you had to pick one verse from the Bible that you really feel like speaks to you personally , or that you center your life around , what would that be ? And that's created some cool discussions . Today we've got Caleb Hack . We get a chance to hear about his favorite verse . Caleb , first of all , tell us a little bit about your love of Valus pumpkin patch , because I'm pretty sure you are the number one fan on staff .
Speaker 2I think this is a controversial topic right now because of just how expensive Valus has gotten . That's where all the conversations centered around now . But no , it's amazing . I grew up going there and now we've got our baby that we go and we had to put her up to the like measuring board , say she's this tall and then if we go back in future years it'll be cool to see how much taller she gets . If you go back right , you know you're going back .
Speaker 1Well , you guys got that season pass , so you can go four times a week .
Speaker 2We went three times and then it got cold .
Speaker 1So and it will probably remain cold for time going on . That was a good sentence , mike . What do you think this is Mike White . By the way , he's the director of ministry here at K and Kings . What do you think about Valus ?
Speaker 3We moved here 10 years ago and we said what's unique to Omaha ? And the one thing that came up was Valus pumpkin patch , and so we didn't get it until we got here . And then it was like , yeah , this is pretty cool . So when the kids were younger , they're now 15 and 12 . So they kind of go by themselves now and that's fine . But when they were younger it's super fun and seeing them add new things every year the chicken coop with the egg shooter stuff .
Speaker 2That's . That's a hard . The hard side is the new thing . That's great , yeah All right , it's amazing .
Speaker 1It's like turned into like a mini amusement park . I mean they don't have the rides , but it's like . So it's expanded so much .
Speaker 2They're adding rides now .
Speaker 1Are they really ? Yeah , they've got a couple years behind .
Speaker 2Yeah , they've got a new like scrambler thing .
Speaker 3So is Valus sponsoring this episode ? They're totally sponsoring it .
Speaker 2They are now my favorite verse has everything to do with Valus today .
Speaker 1So we probably should get into the Bible a little bit here . So , caleb , let's take a look at your favorite verse . It's actually two verses First , corinthians 16 , 13 and 14 . Yeah , be on your guard , stand firm in the faith , be courageous , be strong , do everything in love . That's the NIV version , which is important to note because we're going to talk about a different version coming up later in this conversation , but first I just want to start at a high level . What is it about those verses that is important to you , that speaks to you ?
Speaker 2Yeah , well , I picked those verses for my confirmation , which is funny because it was 16 years ago yesterday and my mom sent me some pictures of that yesterday and I was like , wow , well , that works out . So , yeah , I mean , I grew up in the faith and you get through it in the Lutheran faith and then you go junior high about , you go into confirmation and that's where you really profess your faith in front of the congregation . You learn through Luther's small catechism and everything and you pick like a life first . So I picked this verse . I think I picked it because I was looking for a verse that talked about courage , because my name , Caleb , means courage or that's one of the meanings .
Speaker 2The other meaning we can get into later if you want , but I really liked that first part of it initially when I chose it . You know , stand firm in the faith , be courageous , be strong I think those are important things . But verse 14 is pretty short do everything in love . And that that's the part that I think has really stuck with me . It's just speaking to how you want to live out your life and live out your faith and what it means to do everything in love is super important . So yeah , that's really really stuck with me through the years .
Speaker 1Mike , you're the king of context . Can you just well just give us a little bit of context about this letter ? This is Paul's letter to the Corinthian church . What was going on at this time ? Why is he writing to them ? What's going on with the Corinthians ?
Speaker 3Yeah , so Corinth was a big city . This is one of his longer epistles or just letters to churches . What we see this is unique with Corinthians , I think , is he's referencing a letter they've already written to him and so there's probably some other correspondence . So we have two recorded letters in Corinth , but there might have been four , maybe more than that . I don't know if scholars really know or agree on that . Corinth was a metropolitan city and the church was a mess .
Speaker 3I mean , if you want to look at what not to do as a church , it's kind of the first Corinthians letter , just division . There was a lot of other gods that they worshiped and so you saw Christians kind of straddling the line of , yeah , I'm kind of in the Christian faith , but then I'm also in these temple worships and sacrifices and stuff like that . Division , sexual morality they're called out in chapter five , I think it's just all throughout . And then kind of what's customary for Paul , his longer letters he typically wraps with something like that where it's almost this grab bag collect all at the end , where he gives some shout outs to people , thanks people , encourages them , has some other theology at the end . But yeah , corinthians , both have that . Romans , you see , galatians a smaller portion , but there's typically at the end of that . So that's kind of in this end of that .
Speaker 1I think what you just said is kind of interesting . I mean it's very interesting . But you're talking about there's division , there's these outside temptations where Christians are kind of wavering a little bit . So it makes a lot of sense be on your guard , stand firm in the faith , be courageous , be strong like stand firm . He's saying to them like that's a reminder , but then do everything in love . That almost feels like a little bit of a separate component , like all those first four phrases there , all kind of like build upon each other and then all of a sudden love comes in . What do you guys think about that ? Why do you think Paul included that there ?
Speaker 2Yeah , this feels like it . I mean , you kind of said it . This is his catch-all . End of the letter , final instructions . He goes from talking about Apollo's and who's gonna visit and then these two verses , which kind of sums up , I think , almost everything he's wanting to tell them , and then he goes into these other people are visiting or go in different places , and so , yeah , those are just really the summary of everything he wants the Corinthians to get from this letter . Be watchful , stand firm in the faith , be courageous , be strong , do everything in love summarizes it all . So the stand firm in the faith , be courageous , be strong . I think it's interesting because the other passage , or the other version we were looking at too , is really talking about like men , the leaders of the church , and then to do everything in love almost feels tacked on like oh yeah , we'll do everything in love . So how can you be firm in the faith , how can you be on your guard , how can you have courage , but do that in a loving way ?
Speaker 3Yeah , and I think further context . So it was a polytheistic society and so it was normal to have temples for all the Greek gods and what you would do is basically , you were going to battle , then you would go to the temple of I think it was Artemis and you would just offer sacrifices there , and usually there were temple prostitutes and stuff there . So you would go there for what you needed and then so kind of what beauty , which I need , obviously but you would go to the temple of Aphrodite or whatever it might be and you'd offer sacrifices in hopes of beauty . And so they were normally just everyday life go to whatever temple you had a felt need for , and so you were saying that the stand firm . It's like this , is it ? Watch , be on your guard , watch what's going around in society . We're calling you to one faith . So it was a vast departure from the culture in Corinth at the time .
Speaker 1Caleb , you referenced briefly there the , the other translation that we want to talk about today , and that's the ESV version . Again , I'll read the NIV and then we can compare it to the ESV . So the NIV be on your guard , stand firm in the faith , be courageous , be strong , do everything in love . Esv says be watchful , stand firm in the faith , act like men , be strong . Let all that you do be done in love . What do you guys think about the differences there ? What stands out ?
Speaker 2Yeah , the difference in translations is interesting to me always , because the NIV is more of a kind of thought for thought translation , whereas the ESV is definitely more word for word . So it's more likely , you know , paul used the word for men act like men , and that's the real difference we see here . Is that , well , is he talking to just the men in the town or is he talking to everyone ? And I mean , it was a patriarchal society , so the men were kind of the leaders , but but you don't always think of men as , oh , these loving people , right , we tend to be a little bit more , I don't know , aggressive or hard .
Speaker 2Yeah yeah hard , and so let all that you do be done in love . How is that acting like a man ? You know how do men show love ? I think that's what's really interesting to me about that translation how do we show love ?
Speaker 3Yeah , be like men , act like men . It's kind of a cool and I don't fully know like what it was back then to be a man . I couldn't give you . I think I know growing up for me there were these false images of what being a man was , and it was tough and it was lacking emotion and it was always confident and you never admit wrong and it was like , ah , there's just this false perception of what it means to be a man and so I think being a man in this couple of verses there's strength but there's gentleness , married together . I think you see Jesus with that , where he has bold truth but he has grace and he has compassion . I think it's perfect mix . So I think I know for me , in my journey as a Christian man , I've had to reorient what it means to be a man in culture . I don't know if you guys resonated with that or dealt with that at all .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think for me , like , when I think of being a man , you know , it's easy to think like , oh , into sports or into you know manly things , or hunting , or I don't know what it is , and but I've , I've really started to equate it with more humility and versus you know being the more aggressive , or you know person who's taking charge or leading , but like , how can you lead from a posture of humility ? It's good and and when you're doing that , how is that like showing love to others and as we lead and as we , you know , spend time with our families or with our friends , like it's important for us to recognize . Like you know , we do have leadership qualities in different areas , but like everyone's important . You know we're , all you know , children of God and loving one another in that way is important .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , I think in our Western society , I think that the the concepts of act like men and do everything in love are not synonymous .
Love in Corinthians
Speaker 1I think acts like men is more so be self sufficient , like you said , my kind of be not . Don't be emotional , you know , be levelheaded , be firm , and some of those are good qualities . But when you think of do everything in love , if you are treating other people respectfully , like so many of those things that we associate with manliness , they can be , you know , part of do everything in love as well , and I think I didn't recognize this growing up , but my dad is just a great example .
Speaker 1Just the way that he treats my mom , the way that he treated us kids , that he treated the people around him , I mean , was everything that he did done in love ? Maybe not , but but no one , no , like that's the case for anyone , and I think you know being able to look at people's lives who you admire and say that's what you know authentic manhood looks like . I think if you really examine their lives , you see that they try to live out first Corinthians 1614 as well as they can .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I think . I think that really speaks to the question like well , what is love ? Baby , don't hurt me .
Speaker 3I don't know . Oh boy , we're going there .
Speaker 2How do we love and what does it mean really to love ? How do I show that love ? And so I was looking at the Greek language that was used in this letter , and the word love he uses is agape , which I think we talk about probably the most , is the highest form of love , and there's actually eight . Mike thought there was four , but there's eight . He corrected me yeah .
Speaker 2There's eight Greek words for love , and so agape is the selfless godly love . So that's the one that Paul is telling us . We need to do everything with a selfless godly love , and my thought when I was re-looking at this verse as my favorite verse was well like , everything I do in one way or another is kind of an act of love or an act of worship . Really , it's either like I'm loving myself or I'm loving others , or I'm loving God in some way . Everything I do is probably falling into one of those categories , but what Paul is saying is do everything with that selfless godly love .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's an interesting thought . So you think everything you do is out of love ? Define love .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's what we're trying to do .
Speaker 2So , the love in the way of you think of maybe self love or selfish love . Almost it's all about me . What am I doing to make myself look better or take care of myself or put myself first . That might be a kind of love . And some of these other ones , self love the Greek word philatia is like that's a love , a word for love that they had , so everything does something in that way . They've got like mania , obsessive love .
Speaker 2Another ones we talk about filia , affectionate love . Eros is the romantic or passionate love , storgae , familiar love . So there's all these different types of love . So that's the way that I look at . It is like , okay , I'm loving in these different ways . And then you wanna look at okay , well , what's the most important out of that ? How does God love me ? And you wanna show that love to others in a way that it's giving of yourself . And I don't always do that , nobody can always do that . Jesus was the only perfect person and he showed that kind of love . So we need to model our love after him and our love isn't always like that .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think that's good . I think , if there's probably a healthy and unhealthy , so we might use the word love , but maybe what's at the center of my decisions and it could be healthy versus , like you said , selfish love , I'd probably . That's almost an oxymoron it kind of is yeah Right there . So it's like , yeah , that's not really love , but it's putting me at the center and it could be in a healthy way , it could be in an unhealthy way , but the ideal is that agape , that unconditional , self-sacrificial , and that's what Jesus showed .
Speaker 2That's what Jesus did , 100% , when he would give his life for us . That's the ultimate act of unselfish love , and that's what faith is all about . And so when we're told to do everything in love , I don't know that I would sacrifice myself for you , mike . I don't know that hurts man , but that's what Jesus does for us . And you wanna get to that point where you're willing to give everything to follow Jesus ? That's cool .
Speaker 3You said something earlier . I was reading through this this morning and he kind of gives his shout-outs and there's some familiar names of Apollos . You see Apollos referenced in I think it's chapter three , that he was a pastor , church planner in Corinth also . But then later on and this is where the Christian faith broke the mold , you see in verse 19 , priscilla and Aquila , who were huge leaders in the early church , very wealthy , had a house church they actually ran the church , I believe , but very big supporters . So it's kind of cool that you see them shouted out in verse 19 in kind of that closing chapter .
Speaker 3But it's fascinating when you dig into each of these people a little bit more . And then even we had in one of our sermons I think it was the all in on giving that I did where if you look at the beginning of it they're talking about the collection for God's people , and so that was the Mastonian churches . In 2 Corinthians 8 , we're taking a collection for the Jerusalem Christians . So you just see all the Bibles just interwoven together . Like we might see it as a standalone letter , but it goes into Acts and it goes into 2 Corinthians and it goes . You just see it all throughout . It's so cool .
Speaker 2Yeah , and Paul's spreading this message to all these people and they're taking it and they're doing their missionary work with these words in their mind .
Speaker 1So that's cool . I think we're talking so much about love right now . Probably some of the most well-known verses about love are also in this letter , a couple of chapters before in 1 Corinthians 13 . I mean , if you've been to a wedding , you've heard many of these verses . Love is patient , love is kind , it is not envy , it is not boast , it is not proud , yada , yada . Love never fails . I you know , just looking through all of 1 Corinthians 13 . And then knowing that Paul is going to say do everything in love at the end of his letter a couple of chapters later , it's almost like he drops his truth bomb on him . And then at the end he's like hey , that thing that I told you about love , that's really important .
Speaker 2Maybe go back and read that again . I was serious about that , yeah . Yeah , that's definitely some of the most used passages on love right there . And you just think again about , like , what was the Corinthian church really struggling with ? We don't know what their questions to Paul were , necessarily , but we get the answers and he's talking about love . So they weren't loving well , they were taking love and doing things that they thought were maybe love in a different way , but he gives them the reminder of this is what love really is . It's patient , it's kind . Love doesn't end . It endures all things , hopes all things . It goes on .
Speaker 3Yeah , they twisted that . I think that kind of goes back to that selfishness we talked about earlier . Yeah , and you see it . I mean , chapter five is interesting , where I think he's sleeping with , like his mother-in-law or something .
Speaker 2Wait , who's he ?
Speaker 3here , they don't name one of the leaders of the church and I don't think the we don't know the exact size of this church , but it probably wasn't like King of Kings , huge , where you're a thousand people . I mean you're probably 50 .
Speaker 1And you know , people knew each other's business More like a house and you're living right next to families and you're breaking bread and you're doing life together .
Speaker 2They knew everything that was happening .
Speaker 3They knew everyone that was that he's referencing and then it's like the Lord's sufferer , it's like stop , stop getting drunk and doing communion this way , like what's going on . So , yeah , paul reorients and I would . I would say to yeah , I've been in a number of weddings and Corinthians 13 is almost always there . It applies to marriage , but that's not the context in which Paul's writing it . If you look at chapter 12 , it's like one body , many parts of the church is what he's talking about . With this love , we can take it and apply it to marriage . I think it's true , but he's just saying that the church is a unique community of believers that functions this way . So that's where love is patient , love is kind . You're walking with one another . There's truth , there's humility , there's love that comes together in that great community .
Speaker 1I think you make a great point there , mike , and I've got , I mean , as Sarah and I , my wife , as we were kind of preparing for marriage , we really centered in on 1 Corinthians 16 , 14 . Like that was our verse do everything in love . And I actually have that inscribed on the middle of my wedding ring here . And our thinking was just , you know , if we as impossible as this is , if we can strive to do everything , everything we do , everything we think is about loving the other person we can't fail Like .
Speaker 1That's the bedrock of a successful marriage , and I think that you're you're definitely right , mike , and that these verses extend beyond marriage . This isn't Paul just saying , hey , husbands and wives , do everything to each other in love . He's saying it to everyone . But I think that marriage provides , you know , a great example and that , yeah , I screw up and I do things that make Sarah mad or disappoint her , but for the most part , I want to do things that make her happy . I want to . I don't buy flowers for anyone else , but all my flowers for Sarah because I love her and I'm . That's an act of love , you know things like that , and if we can apply that to other people in our lives , it looks different for each person . The way that I love you , mike , is different than the way that I would love my mom . But if we act towards each other in love , that's how we build this thing . That's how we get non-Christians looking at us and being like what's different about those people ? Who's this Jesus guy that they're following ?
Speaker 3Yeah . And if you think about marriage , I mean you're what ? Three , four years coming up , four , yeah , you're five-ish , we're almost five , almost five , five in March , so we were 20 in August , and I just think it's some so radically different now than I was 20 years ago . And man , selfishness is death to a marriage , and so I know there are seasons of that , trying to grow out of that , grow up , maturing , becoming humble , hearing your spouse . And for me , you guys know me pretty well , but I'm very logical and so I can build my case and be right pretty quickly or defend myself . And so what I had to learn early in marriage was I would sacrifice the relationship to be right , and it was dangerous . And so then it's like again what's my motivation here ? It's to be right not to hear Liz's heart and work through something together . And so I don't know that's my wisdom , humility , my favorite quality in people , and I don't know how a marriage can be successful if you don't have humility .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , I think , and leading in marriage from a position of leading in faith too . We have this opportunity to lead our families in faith and do that in a loving way . And right now we just had our baby and she's four months old now and it's so easy for me to be like , oh , I'm tired , I don't want to do the chores , I don't want to help out in a different way , but being sacrificial in my love is really giving and that's what's going to give life to our marriage . And then when I look at that too like we were talking about with other people who maybe we're not close with , or if somebody else has a need and we need to serve them too it's how can I sacrifice and love in that way ?
Speaker 3Yeah , maybe think of Ephesians 5 . I think it's a controversial section , but it talks about why submit to your husbands . And we just stopped there . And people are irate about the word submit . It's like whoa , whoa , whoa . Just read the context , get into it a little bit more . Christian marriage was actually really unique in the culture where it was definitely equality between , but then go to 25 . So the husbands love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her . So it's like , okay , we get stuck on the word submission , but keep going and , husbands , you're called to die continually for your wife .
Speaker 2Well , do you think about how Jesus loved and how he lived and how he submitted to his Father in heaven ? And he's there in the garden asking God , take this cup from me . If it's your will , I will do it , but I don't want to die . I don't want to sacrifice like that and nobody does . I don't know that Jesus necessarily would say he didn't want to , but he's balancing that . How do I do this love ? That's the ultimate sacrifice and that's what he does for us . And if Jesus can sacrifice for us and we're supposed to follow his example , how can we love others ?
Speaker 3Yeah , and that's that transformation . I think you're right . In the garden , I mean , yeah , it's interesting to think that he obviously wanted to , but I think he realized that the gravity and weight of it in that moment , you know Right . But that sacrifice is huge . And then I think I was going back to identity . So , because of Christ's love for us , we have new identity and that's what you see . Paul goes back to it in his letters a lot and he goes back to like as dearly loved children of God , therefore act this way . So it's like it's always going back to identity that informs behavior , if that makes sense .
Speaker 1Yeah , so Real good stuff , guys . I mean we just hit on a lot of topics , a lot of good
Exploring First Corinthians and God's Power
Speaker 1stuff about love . As we wrap up here , is there anything else about First Corinthians , 16 , 13 , and 14 that you want to head on , or maybe something ? I mean , obviously we've touched on a lot of really good stuff , I think , so far today , but is there anything that you would just really hope that someone listening or watching to this takes away from it ? And that's their takeaway for the day ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I think also the be strong , like it's just one simple phrase be strong . Where does our strength come from , you know ? Does it come from internally ? Is it myself ? Am I providing the strength ? Or you know , as he talks about , stand firm in the faith , be on your guard , be courageous , like those are qualities we get from God , and so our strength comes from God . Our ability to love comes from God . God is love , right . So we want to be able to take that and have the strength to love in that humble , godly , selfless way . Yeah , two thoughts .
Speaker 3I think , as I've matured and grown in my knowledge of the word , my relationship with the Lord , I think Christianity is an internal relationship that then drives the external , if that makes sense . I think as a kid I've flipped those and so it was kind of this behavior modification where you like look and perform a certain way . But I was trying on my own power , and so I think when you dig into scripture , it's an internal transformation we talk about . We transform lives of King , of Kings , right . So there's a heart change that then drives your behavior . And then , second thing , shout out to Vallas Pumpkin Patch one more time your Kettle Corn kills it . So I love it . That's all I got today .
Speaker 1Nice , I don't know if there's a better way to end it than that King and King's family , let's keep living our lives beyond Sunday .
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