Is it possible to hear from God? In what ways does God speak to us? We examine Numbers 12:6-8 and discuss what God's relationship with Moses means for us today.
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Is it possible to hear from God? In what ways does God speak to us? We examine Numbers 12:6-8 and discuss what God's relationship with Moses means for us today.
Stay up to date by following us on your favorite social networks.
Facebook | Instagram | Twitter | YouTube
Have questions or comments? Email us at contact@kingofkings.org.
Thanks for listening!
Hey there Can Kings family Welcome into another episode of the Beyond Sunday sermons podcast. This is a podcast where we get to dive a little bit deeper into, uh, you know, those 35 minutes that are preached on a Sunday morning. We get to extract a little bit more tasty information out of that and I'm really excited because we're kicking off a new series that is kind of it's based off of a series that we did on Sunday mornings, but we get a chance to kind of meet some different members of the staff and explore different parts of the Bible than we've even discussed on Sunday. So we had a series a while back called favorite verse, where our preachers Greg, mike and Zach got the opportunity to select a verse or group of verses that was most impactful to them in the Bible and then they gave a message on it, and now we're extending that opportunity to other members of the staff.
Speaker 1:We want to hear what are other people's favorite verses. So that's what we're going to be doing today. First, just some quick introductions. Mike White, our director of ministry, always great to have you here. Thanks. Looking forward to it and more excitedly, we have a first time guest, he's more excited for you.
Speaker 3:He's bored with me.
Speaker 1:I'm way more excited, that's fair, she's a first time guest. She's our associate campus director at our Northwest campus, she's the mom to two awesome kids and she someday hopes to be a flower farmer. Yes, kate Solberg, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it is.
Speaker 1:it is exciting to be here before we dive into your favorite verses, I would just love an introduction to you. Just what's who? Who is Kate? Give me a couple of sentences on who you are and what makes you special.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, you already said I'm a mom. Ben is at UNO studying cybersecurity and Rebecca is a sophomore at Miller North, and prior to being at King of Kings, I was a public school teacher for 23 years. So I've gone to King of Kings actually for that same amount of time 23 years and just I've always loved our church and so it was exciting to change careers and come to work here full time, so it's an honor to be here.
Speaker 3:She's also a Jayhawk, did you know that yes. Kate, what's a Jayhawk.
Speaker 2:Well, it is a mythical bird. Okay, okay, that's good, but yes, it is the mascot for the University of Kansas at Lawrence, and it is basketball season Number one number one preseason eight people it is which is that's a lot to live up to I know.
Speaker 1:All right, so let's dive into your favorite verse, which is numbers 12, six to eight, and I have to be honest, I have not spent a lot of time in numbers. I feel like this is one of those books to the Bible we normally breeze right over. I mean even the name, just numbers, unless you're like an accountant or something I love.
Speaker 3:this is my favorite book.
Speaker 1:I was going to say maybe you know someone who's analytically inclined might be like numbers, let's go.
Speaker 1:But most of us is kind of like, ah, that doesn't sound super exciting, but there is some really good stuff in here, and I love the verses that you chose, kate, so I'm going to read them real quick. Okay, again, this is numbers 12, six to eight. This is God speaking to Moses, aaron and Miriam. He says when there is a prophet among you, I, the Lord, reveal myself to them in visions. But this is not true of my servant Moses. He is faithful in all my house. With him, I speak face to face, clearly, and not in riddles. He sees the form of the Lord. Why, then, were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses? So I just want to open it up to you, kate. What is it about those verses that makes you go man? But that's, that's my favorite passage, right there.
Speaker 2:Um, well, this jumped out to me when I studied the life of Moses many years ago. Um, I feel like most Christians are fairly familiar with Moses and like the big parts of his life. Um, but this stood out to me because I've never seen these words spoken before by God to anyone else, and so just the part where it says, um with him I speak face to face, clearly and not in riddles that just like jumped off the pages at me. Um, because I feel like if there's anything I desire, it's to have a close walk with Jesus and for God to say that to Moses. I feel like that's what Moses had a very close walk with Jesus.
Speaker 1:We'll get into more of that in a second, but I think context is important here to understand what's going on where we are in the Bible and everything. Mike, you're the king of context. Can you set the scene for us here, like we're jumping and kind of in the middle of this conversation? But but what's going on in the larger world as God talks to these three?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so the first five books we would attribute to Moses generally writing those, and it's interesting, when you read through the five in a row you'll see repeats and stories. And so Exodus, leviticus, numbers, deuteronomy, can all have some repeats, and so this is familiar to us from Exodus and Leviticus, so we've heard this before. So, um, it's about 1500 BC. The Israelites are imprisoned in Egypt. They're crying out for over 400 years and God raises up Moses as the liberator to come and bring them out. Plagues pass over, they're brought out of slavery into the desert. God meets them at Mount Sinai, commandments, but notice, it's a relationship before commandments. That's a really big thing, I think, for me in seeing the sequence of that. So it's not do these things to have relationship with me. It's like I've initiated a relationship with you and then, as my people live this way, um, and then there's rebellion and then water the desert for 40 years. So we're right after they've left Mount Sinai, right here.
Speaker 1:And what's going on here is Maryam and Aaron are Moses's siblings and they have prominent leadership positions among the Israelites, but they're not Moses. Moses is a superstar, he's the leader, he's the one who gets the one on one chats with God. And I think that they got a little bit jealous here. So they start bad mouthing him a little bit and they say um, they said the Bible says that Maryam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Kushite wife, for he had married a Kushite and that's uh, that's a different nationality. Um, and they said has the Lord spoken only through Moses? Hasn't he also spoken through us? And the Lord heard this. So God has to like, set these two straight and be like hey, listen, your jealousy has no place here.
Speaker 1:Moses is my dude. I speak face to face with him. I speak to other prophets they're special. I speak to them in visions. Moses gets the face to face treatment. So that just kind of provides a little bit more context. Mike, first time that you well, I guess, as we were preparing for this the first time when you read this, what about this verse stands out to you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say the prominent theme for me is the voice of God. Okay, I'd love to hear more of your journey at some point too, about hearing from the Lord. I know that's something I've sought in my life. I wouldn't say I've ever heard an audible voice or a season where I feel like God's impressing some of my heart or something, giving me a verse or a word for somebody, but it's amazing. So I didn't know. I'm curious your journey more of hearing from the Lord and how have you grown that? Any challenges?
Speaker 2:Yes, I would say it's always been a desire of my heart to hear from the Lord, and I think a problem we have is we're always trying to understand God with, like our human brain, which is nearly impossible or maybe impossible. But I feel like we're able to understand attributes of God and his character and how he speaks. But I would agree he doesn't speak one way, he speaks many ways, and the longer I walk with him I feel like the more I learn about the different ways he speaks to his children. I really don't foresee this side of heaven speaking with God face to face. I mean, I look forward to that for eternity for sure. But one thing that I think is important to know, that I think is important to know before this verse happens, is Moses' birth most people know a little bit about. Pharaoh had said all the Hebrew babies that were male were to be killed, and so Moses' mother was in a predicament. It says that she hid him for as long as she could, which I can't imagine hiding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, how long is that the newborn kind of thing?
Speaker 2:Right, right. So I think you know probably a few months. And then she obeyed the command and set him off in the Nile River. In my mind I feel like she had this day planned for quite a while, because it says when she put him into the Nile, in the direction of where Pharaoh's daughter, the princess, was bathing, so I feel like she probably was watching this, like she knew the timing of when the princess came to the river with her maid servants. And it also says that when Moses was born he was a fine child. I believe it says fine child.
Speaker 2:So I don't really know. I mean, I feel like every mother feels like they have a fine child. But I think her hope was that the princess would see this child and have mercy, and I mean, maybe even love him when she saw him. And that's what happened. And so Miriam, his sister, saw this all play out. And so when the princess saw Moses, right away Miriam was there to say should I get a Hebrew woman to take care of this baby? And sure enough, the princess says yes and Miriam goes and gets Moses' own mother.
Speaker 2:So I mean that is amazing. So the beginning of his life is amazing. And so right away. We know God set Moses apart for something incredible and so he actually went back to live with his mother and his family probably for, I think, maybe four or five years, which is huge. I mean, children can know a lot about the faith in those early years and so in the early years he was taught about the one true God and at that point he went to live in the palace. So I can't even remember actually your original question.
Speaker 3:I don't remember my original question, but it's a good context, you know, I think. Yeah, we see Moses come, exodus one and two, and so the Joseph gets them to Egypt and it says the Israelites are growing in number and there's a new king that doesn't know about Joseph and he becomes terrified and so he says, start killing all the male babies. And then that's what Moses and then thinking of, there's a book called God's Broken Heroes by Dan Hoppin, available on Amazon or any fine retailer of books. Amazing. But Moses has his hiccups too, and you see where he rises in power and he actually kills someone and flees and then God meets him there. So it's like, yeah, god shows this guy and had a plan for his life and just journeyed the whole way with him.
Speaker 2:That is what I was getting to.
Speaker 3:actually, that's what I was hoping to hear.
Speaker 2:Okay so.
Speaker 1:We just wanted to talk about the murder part.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I want to get to the murder. But he grows up in the palace of obviously the most privileged life you can have at that time period in the palace. But he knew who he was. He knew he was a Hebrew and so at one point he witnesses the Egyptians being harsh with his people and he does kill that Egyptian. Tries to hide it up, like us. That's what humans do.
Speaker 3:Did he bury him in the sand or something? Yes, he buried him in the sand, so.
Speaker 2:but then he hears rumblings, people are talking, so he knows like word is out and that's when he takes off. So this is the part. I think he was a shepherd for 40 years, which is a lot of downtime. I would imagine a lot of solitary time.
Speaker 3:Have you ever heard of sheep? Do you know what it's like?
Speaker 2:I know nothing about herding sheep.
Speaker 2:But in my mind, I imagine there's no one to talk to right other than the sheep, so you're on your own. I mean, you give commands to the sheep, but you're in nature, which is beautiful usually. But I can imagine this is where his faith exploded, because I feel like he had to have been what is that called? An existential crisis, maybe? Okay, so he came from the palace. Now he's in the wilderness with sheep by himself and he's like what has happened? And I feel like I wish the Bible said more about those 40 years and it doesn't, but I feel like it was 40 years, with Moses and God spending a lot of time together, and I think that's what prepared him for the next decades.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is fascinating. So we don't know how he spent those 40 years you just see him immediately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he got married and he was a shepherd, Yep.
Speaker 3:that's what we know. And then God appears to him in a bush.
Speaker 2:Right, who knows Right?
Speaker 3:But you think it was positive, developing his faith, kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, if you think about it, if you remove distractions from your life and you're on your own and especially in nature this time of year, it's beautiful outside your mind shifts to God, at least in my experience. You're like look at what is around me, this is the God of the universe, and I just feel like he had a ton of time with God without distractions, so I think that was where God built him up.
Speaker 3:It's intriguing. I might go the other way and say he didn't have any faith at all. I don't know. I just don't know if scripture speaks to that. You see, god called Abraham, who was a pagan person. I guess I just probably lay in the middle, say I don't know where Moses was.
Speaker 2:Right, I guess it could have gone either way. I like to think he spent a ton of time with.
Speaker 3:God, you're more of an optimist, I'm more of a pessimist, and so Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:Speaking to Kate's point, I mean when I mean I'm looking here at Exodus three. It says when the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, god called to him from within the burning bush, moses, moses. And Moses said here I am, you'd think. I mean maybe he did have some kind of relationship with God, if a burning bush, if a burning bush started talking to me, the first thing I would say wouldn't be here I am. It would be here I'm going.
Speaker 3:I'm running as fast as I can. I'm out of here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, could be, I do. I find it fascinating that in this maybe it wasn't the first conversation, but the first recorded, documented conversation that Moses and God have Moses is just throwing up roadblock after roadblock. God says I want you to go to Israel and free my people. And Moses is just like I don't wanna find somebody else. I can't speak well, I get tongue twisted. I mean, he is not having any of this. And then when we go to your verses, kate, god is singling him out and saying this is the guy that I like to talk to Face-to-face, this is, this is the person that I have such close relationship with and I just I love that, that kind of dichotomy between those two conversations. I love that God didn't give up on Moses, but he's like okay, we started off a little bit rough, but I'm gonna hang in there. I love you, I'm gonna use you, I'm gonna empower you and we're gonna become really, really great friends. Maybe they were really great friends. I guess we don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like they were.
Speaker 1:I'm not. I like that. I've never thought about Moses and God's relationship like that before but I I like thinking about it that way. So you kind of mentioned it, kate, and I want to touch on the concept of Potentially hearing from God. You said you feel like you hear from God best in nature.
Speaker 2:That's one way, when I'm outside and it's quiet, and I Just think of the verse where it says the earth is full of his glory, and I feel like God reveals it Continually, no matter what the season. There are things that just like glimmer and it I feel like it's a glimpse of who God is and how he creates. I mean, there's plenty of evil and terrible in the world, but there's also so much beauty in the world and I Definitely think it's seeing a glimpse of his glory. The trees right now are beautiful Against the sky, like I. Just as I was driving to work, I saw the trees and I'm like man, it's about to explode. Just the colors are beautiful. So that's one example.
Speaker 1:What are? What are some other examples? I was gonna echo that.
Speaker 3:I mean, you see it you see it in Psalms and you see it in Romans 120, I think, where it talks about men are without excuse, like the glories of God are everywhere. So I I do think nature is a prominent way, and I didn't include the human body. I think Pastor Mark had a sermon on that, actually, maybe it's. May you talk about the complexities of the body, where it's just like it's incredible, right? Yeah, I mean, I personally I really wrestle with how God speaks. I think I wrestle with why it's not more audible. You know, I was thinking about Hebrews 11 we're talking about without faith, it's impossible to please God. So I don't know, if God did speak audibly, is there less of a faith component there? But how many more would Turn to faith? These are things I wrestle with. I mean, I think for me it's primarily the, the word of God, the spirit of God, nature. I think God speaks through people.
Speaker 3:Yes, so, but I think we're moving those distractions and slowing down and sitting.
Speaker 2:That's hard to do, it's hard to slow down and stop agree yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah what you man, what do you think? Give us your, your wisdom on God speaking.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting. We actually just we talked about this in my connect group, this one, my men's connect group. We're talking about the different ways we hear from God and and Somebody mentioned you know, obviously God's word is a great way another guy was talking about at a time he was really struggling with his faith. He ran into a guy in a Catholic synagogue who was wearing a wing stop hat and his favorite restaurants wing stop. So he's like I want to talk to this guy and this guy like revived his faith and then just walked out the door and he said he's never seen him again. But like he felt like God spoke to him through. He called him the, the wingstop preacher, which is interesting.
Speaker 1:I, I don't know like I struggle with it a little bit too, mike, I'm just like I feel like we could be spared so much Mental anguish and sometimes even physical pain if God would just tell us the right thing to do. But does that then defeat the purpose of free will? Does that take free will out of it? Or? You know, I think God wants to be chosen. He doesn't want To come down with this big, booming voice and say believe in me. He wants to, you know, have that relationship and as we were prepping for this podcast, kate, you said something that I really, really liked. You said that God doesn't often shove you, but he nudges you. He just gives you little nudges. Can you elaborate on that? What? What do you mean by that? I?
Speaker 2:I used to pray that a lot. I would just ask God, please don't nudge me, shove me, because I just was afraid I would miss nudging. And I Don't know how many times I prayed it, maybe hundreds. But finally I just felt like, why am I asking this of God when it's not his character? I feel like God is. It sounds weird to say, gentlemen, but he's a loving God, he's not a tyrant, he's not, he's not pushy, he's not pushy, he's not gonna shove me. And so I changed my prayer. Instead of asking God to shove me, I Pray more. Will you, you know? Will you tune my heart in my mind more to what you desire? And, like you said, mike, like, help me, remove distractions to what, so I? So I would miss, possibly, what you're leading me to do. So, yeah, I'm done with that prayer.
Speaker 3:So nudging now, not shoving, yeah, yeah you made me think of Of Galatians talks about keeping in step with the spirit, where it's this slow kind of walking Like taking steps.
Speaker 1:It's not Grandios, it's not sexy, it's just like slow Walking, with the nudging being shaped over time by the word of God, by the spirit of God, I think that's what relationship looks like you know, right so right and and I think Again, this is speculation, but just in my mind I think God With holds, with holds, that's not the right word but doesn't overtly speak to us all the time, because then when we do kind of get those, those nudges, from him.
Speaker 1:It might not be as impactful or as meaningful. I mean, I Specifically remember there was one time in my life I will never forget this where I feel like I heard from God not audibly, but I just I know it was him and this is probably about five years ago. I had about a six month long period of unemployment and that was really that. It was a really hard time because, I mean, every day is just another rejection email. It's just somebody telling you no, you're not good enough. You know, oh, you know, we really liked your interview, but we like somebody else better.
Speaker 1:And I just, I remember I got out of the shower one day and I put my towel on and I'm just looking in the mirror and Satan just started. I mean, he was throwing fastball after fastball lies. I mean, he's just like you are worthless, you have no talent, you have no ability and no one wants you. And I just started crying and all of a sudden there was this other voice in my head that all of a sudden was it wasn't like I don't even know how, but I know it wasn't my brain telling it to me, it was something else. And I heard this voice said no, I love you, you are capable, you're gonna get through this, just hang in there. And it was one of the most moving, one of the most impactful moments of my entire life. It completely changed my faith. It's cool, you know, if God spoke to us overtly all the time, would moments like that have that level of impact?
Speaker 2:I don't know, maybe they would.
Speaker 1:I mean I certainly wouldn't be opposed to getting more encouragement from God, but I don't know. Again, speculation, but just kind of my experience. Yeah, thanks for sharing that.
Speaker 3:I think sometimes we skip over the answerer for the answer and it's like we just want what God can give us or tell us as opposed to God, and I think that's what that wrestling probably, dan that you went through it shaped you a lot more than just giving you. The next job will be in six months or whatever it is, and you'll be doing this, but time with him and being shaped to rely on him is huge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that was probably the most impactful period of my life when it came to my faith, because I was forced to slow down. All of a sudden, I had an extra eight hours every day and I'm not like a big video game player or anything Like. What I did was I got into the Bible. You mentioned God's broken heroes. That's when God's broken heroes got written, because God made me slow down and he nudged me towards writing that for whatever reason.
Speaker 3:Can we find that book again? He's serious.
Speaker 1:This guy. I'll tell you what. So, kate, you mentioned like you read these verses and maybe this doesn't we can't have this exact representation of a relationship with God, but do you feel like it gives you something to stride for? When you read these, You're just like man. I want that, or at least the closest version I can get, to that.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, and I, just like we said, God speaks in so many different ways. I just love the idea of being aware of another way God speaks. You know we've talked about God speaking through the word. Obviously, God's speaking through creation, God's speaking through other believers, but I think the list it goes on and on and on. And the closer you walk with Jesus, the longer you walk with Jesus. I feel like he reveals those things to you, especially like when your heart desires that.
Speaker 3:So yeah, I would also. I remember when I first got to King of Kings, I shared this with you guys. I heard a variety of people here say the Lord spoke to me and I was like what do you mean? So I just remember following up with them and saying, tell me more about that. Like, did God, like literally speak? Well, no, it was. So I guess for me, I think, maybe cautioning how we hear that were, as other believers, whether strong or just starting out in their faith, it may set some precedent that they may never hear. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So, I do think God speaks, but I think when we say that term we just gotta be humble with it. And it can be a dangerous power If I say the Lord told me that you guys should go get me lunch or whatever it is like that. Right, say how you argue with the Lord in that situation. That's kind of a dangerous thing, but I already ate today so.
Speaker 2:But I think it's a good question If someone like you said if someone says the Lord spoke to me like, tell me more about that.
Speaker 3:How did you know the Lord spoke Yep. And test it with scripture too. It's never gonna counter scripture.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 3:That's why you better know scripture.
Speaker 2:Right, right so.
Speaker 1:Do you guys ever have times where you're like you see something happening and you just feel something inside you that tells you to act a certain way, and often it's acting the way that you normally wouldn't or you don't want to Like. I feel like that sometimes. You know, even in these hallways at King and Kings, there'll be somebody walking down the hallway and I'll feel something in me say, hey, go talk to them. That that person's hurting. Go talk to them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, would you say, that's the Lord. I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's. I wanted to get you guys' sense on A if you ever kind of have those moments, and B where you think that comes from.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we know, based on scripture, we're told to love people, like take care of my sheep. So anytime you extend kindness or love or really serving them, like, that is from the Lord, because we're commanded to do that. So, especially if it, like you said, pops into your head, I think that's a nudging and that's always gonna honor the Lord. So I don't think there's anything to question about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would say people can get weird with the Holy Spirit, but like the word says in Romans 8, 11, and if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, so that's different. So I think it's hard to say definitively yes, Dan, that was the Holy Spirit that called you. I mean, I'd lean that way. I thought of a recent experience a few months ago where there's a couple sitting on the couches that I didn't recognize. That just seemed different and I walked by and then there was that conviction that check, you need to turn around and go talk to them. That Spirit of God, was it the Egg McMuffin that morning? I don't know. I don't think we can say what it was, but it falls in line with scripture and so I think there's something where the Spirit of God dwells in us that guides us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure I think so too, Mike. I wanna get your thoughts on a part of this first. I don't really know what to do with it.
Speaker 3:It says so you're hoping that I do know what to do with it. You know everything, oh man. Wow, make sure we get that edited out.
Speaker 1:Based off the last couple of minutes. It'll be in references. There'll be some food related reference coming here Okay. It says with Him again this is God speaking about Moses. With Him I speak face to face, clearly, and not in riddles. Why do you think he emphasizes and not in riddles? Not emphasizes, but just includes that.
Speaker 3:So I think the context he's saying a prophet of the Lord is among you. So I think he's referenced to the broader group of prophets. I don't know why. My mind went to the parable of the sower, where Jesus is telling these parables, and he says he who has ears to hear, let him hear. And he doesn't explain it, and usually the disciples later on they're like we got no clue what you meant A common refrain from the disciples?
Speaker 3:Yeah they're not very bright. But I think that was almost the point where it's like I think that's what was common across the crowd there. People had come for a variety of reasons, for they were wanting different things from Jesus, and so he gives this parable. That was not clear. I think the goal there was for them to press into Jesus and not just take here's what I'm giving you. You know what I mean, and so, and then that's weird. I think it's like it's in Isaiah, where it says they'll be ever seeing but never perceiving. They'll be ever hearing but not knowing. And it's like wait, what is that? So I don't think he's wanting to confuse people and like not be, god's a God of clarity, but I think there he was really wanting them to press in. So maybe that's that relationship where it's like God, I don't understand what's going on, I need to come into you. And so the disciples did what was right in that moment they pressed further into Jesus, as opposed to walking and be like I don't know, this guy's crazy.
Speaker 3:I don't know what he's saying. So maybe that's what God's wanting is for us to press further into him. And if you look at Moses, I mean he was radically candid with God.
Speaker 3:I mean first of all Bolden, saying excuse, excuse, excuse, find somebody else, I don't want to do this right. And sometimes he's like, why are you doing this, Lord? Like it's a very open, honest relationship where he's pouring out his heart. So I think that's what God's desiring is for us to press in. It's a speculation, I don't know, but I don't think God's goal is confusion.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, I think you're right. I think he's looking to create intrigue and saying hey, come, let's talk about this, let's chat here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Kate, what's the answer?
Speaker 2:Well, it makes me think of just being a teacher and in the last few years of teaching. Like, teachers are always reflecting on their practice and trying to improve, and so we come back to we don't. Our role as teachers isn't just. Here's the answers memorize them.
Speaker 2:We want to teach kids how to use their brains, how to think, and to always encourage that curiosity of learning Like that's a well-developed student. And I think that's what God is doing here too. He doesn't want to just say here's all the answers. First of all, we probably even want to take them. We wouldn't be like, okay, thanks, we would doubt, we would doubt and we would question. And so I agree with what Mike said. He speaks now. I'm gonna question. Every time I use that, he reveals himself, and with the goal of drawing us closer to him, and that's faith, I think when you desire to grow closer to the Lord, that's faith, and we know how powerful faith is. It says faith of a mustard seed can move mountains, and so when we press into him, we know him better, and I think that's the goal.
Speaker 3:I'd also add he's given the opposite to Moses. So he says when a prophet of the Lord is among you, I will reveal myself to him in visions, I speak to him in dreams. And then he says to Moses he's not gonna speak in riddles, but that doesn't necessarily mean he does speak in riddles to somebody else.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 3:He's just saying what he's not doing with Moses. So he's saying with some prophets his visions and dreams. Moses is face to face, not riddles. So it's not saying that he necessarily does speak to others in riddles. I would also say that too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Good point. I love that analogy, Kate Like that.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I feel like that was very revelatory and thank you for sharing that. Are there before we get out of here. Are there any other takeaways, any other things that like, if someone is reading this verse or they're listening to this podcast, is there any hope or is there any anything you would hope that someone would take away from this kind of as a final, you know, bookend to this discussion?
Speaker 2:What I think is I know there's lots of people who would say I feel like I don't hear from God and that can feel discouraging, and I think that happens sometimes when you don't feel like you're hearing from God, and that doesn't that shouldn't mean to stop pursuing God. If you continually make yourself available to the Lord, remove distractions, call to him. I think there's certain prayers that God always answers, and one of those being would you show yourself to me, lord? So when someone prays that God will answer it In the next 10 minutes may probably not, but when you make yourself available to the Lord, he will reveal himself to you. That I'm convinced of.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you started with context. I mean, I think context matters and that's what's cool is hearing your favorite verse, but it's encompassed within a larger story of the people of God and Moses. In his calling, Moses had a grand calling on his life. I think we all have callings on our life walking with the Lord. I think Christian community really matters, and so even that freedom to say I don't know if I fully understand what it means to hear from the Lord, but then I've safe believers that we can wrestle, Like yeah, I wrestle with that too Like that just builds you up in your faith and you talk about ways to hear from the Lord. So community really matters and authenticity really matters and that's one of our values. But I think just sharing that's really important, Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I agree.
Speaker 1:So listeners or people who are watching this, I encourage you get into these verses Again. It's numbers 12, six to eight. This is a really cool passage that I'd never really given a second thought to until you brought it up, Kate, and I mean, look it, we just had a 35, 40 minute conversation about this and my brain is just swimming right now. I love it. I love that we have such just an awesome God who does reveal himself to us, but he's also it's never full revealing. There's always more to you know, explore with him. Like there's never a final answer, there's always more to try and try and understand and just love about this guy. So, yeah, get into these verses. Thanks for joining us. Let's keep living our faith lives beyond Sunday.